Apologist

I'll give you a hint. He was born of the Virgin Mary, suffered and died under Pontius Pilate, and rose again on the third day.

EsoCyn

Leo Tolstoy would have a bone or two to pick with you.

Negasta

Oh, you mean the guy the existence of which is yet to be historicaly proven by any other means than using the Not-So-Good-Book, and if you mention the shroud of Turin, I will detonate in the greatest explosion ever witnessed by man.

This is shaping up to be a nice flame war.

Apologist

Have you considered Sacred Tradition? Also, consider the Miracle at Fatima.

Anyway, that aside, the fact of the matter is that if you are going to say that about Christ, you are forced to say the same about a whole lot of other things.

We know about the Trojan war because of Homer. If you don't accept the bible, you can't accept Homer either. Poof, you dont' believe in the Trojan War.

You know about the account of the assassination of Caesar from Plutarch. Poof, you can't believe in the account of the assassination of Caesar either.

The Persian war? Some greek historian. Poof, you don't believe in that either.

Apologist

No...but Jesus did establish a Church that gave clear social teaching, and then a Pope (See Unam Sanctum) that said that temporal authoriy must be subverted to Ecclessial authority.

That said, the bible and the Church makes it clear that governments have the right to retain order. THAT said, presuming that Church teaching was law, then subversiveness to said laws would create disorder, therefore... :devil3:

laughing dog

I'm not a theologian, but what church did Jesus establish?

Apologist

O Rome immortal, city of martyrs and saints,
O immortal Rome, accept our praises.
Glory in the heavens to God our Lord
And peace to men who love Christ!
To you we come, angelic Pastor,
In you we see the gentle Redeemer.
You are the holy heir of our Faith,
The comfort and pride of those who believe and fight.
Force and terror will not prevail,
But truth and love will reign.

PONTIFICAL MARCH
Hail, O Rome, eternal abode of memories;
A thousand palms and thousand altars sing your praises.
O city of the Apostles, mother and guide of the elect,
Light of the nations, and hope of the world!
Hail, O Rome! Your light will never fade;
the splendour of your beauty disperses hatred and shame.
O city of the Apostles, mother and guide of the elect,
Light of the nations, and hope of the world!

Starshark

This has turned into more of a BCH thread.

Apologist

BCH?

laughing dog

I'm no theologian, but what evidence is there that Jesus established the Catholic Church. I've read both testaments a number of times, and the term "Catholic Church" does not appear.