FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-23-2008, 08:23 AM   #11
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,787
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lars_egarots View Post
Just out of curiosity, what will you use the list for?
I am thinking about putting together a sort of how to book or ebook about studying the Bible, using clues from the texts themselves on how best to go about studying them.

I have found some more parallel passages based on clues from posters on this thread; my list is now as follows:
Genesis 10.1-29 = 1 Chronicles 1.4-23.
Micah 4.1-5 = Isaiah 2.2-5.
2 Kings 18.13-20.19 = Isaiah 36.1-39.8.
2 Chronicles 36.22-23 = Ezra 1.1-3a.
Nehemiah 7.6-8.1a = Ezra 2.1-3.1.
2 Kings 25.22-25 = Jeremiah 39.14; 40.7-9; 41.1-3; 2 Kings 24.18-25.21 = Jeremiah 39.1-10; 52.1-27; 2 Kings 25.27-30 = Jeremiah 52.31-34.
2 Samuel 22.1-51 = Psalm 18.1-50 (including heading).
1 Chronicles 16.8-22 = Psalm 105.1-15; 96.1-13a; 106.1, 47-48.
Psalm 14.1-7 = Psalm 53.1-6.
Psalm 135.8-12 = Psalm 136.10-22.
Psalm 40.13-17 = Psalm 70.1-5.
Psalm 57.7-11 = Psalm 108.1-5.
Psalm 31.2-4a = 71.1-3.
Psalm 60.5-12 = 108.6-13.

Chronicles either uses or shares a source with Samuel and Kings.
Synoptic gospels (the synoptic problem).
2 Peter and Jude?
Ben.
Ben C Smith is offline  
Old 10-23-2008, 08:26 AM   #12
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: nowhere
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben C Smith View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin View Post
I don't believe Chronicles uses Kings. They contain different editions of the same source, a source that I think Josephus had access to.
Interesting. Is this discussed somewhere?
I know that Graeme Auld, Kings without Privilege (1994), has dealt with the issue of a common source, but I haven't read the work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben C Smith View Post
Do you think this lost source was perhaps one of the lost sources mentioned in Kings and Chronicles (such as the book of the kings of Israel and Judah)?
I haven't looked into the issues for a very long time, but the source is such a major source that I'd think that the mention of lost books you refer to is actually from the source.


spin
spin is offline  
Old 10-23-2008, 11:33 AM   #13
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,787
Default

Update: I am adding Colossians and Ephesians to the list, and can confirm that the parallels between Jude and 2 Peter (see page 15 of the PDF file) are of a synoptic variety. My list is now as follows:
Genesis 10.1-29 = 1 Chronicles 1.4-23.
Micah 4.1-5 = Isaiah 2.2-5.
2 Kings 18.13-20.19 = Isaiah 36.1-39.8.
2 Chronicles 36.22-23 = Ezra 1.1-3a.
Nehemiah 7.6-8.1a = Ezra 2.1-3.1.
2 Kings 25.22-25 = Jeremiah 39.14; 40.7-9; 41.1-3; 2 Kings 24.18-25.21 = Jeremiah 39.1-10; 52.1-27; 2 Kings 25.27-30 = Jeremiah 52.31-34.
2 Samuel 22.1-51 = Psalm 18.1-50 (including heading).
1 Chronicles 16.8-22 = Psalm 105.1-15; 96.1-13a; 106.1, 47-48.
Psalm 14.1-7 = Psalm 53.1-6.
Psalm 135.8-12 = Psalm 136.10-22.
Psalm 40.13-17 = Psalm 70.1-5.
Psalm 57.7-11 = Psalm 108.1-5.
Psalm 31.2-4a = 71.1-3.
Psalm 60.5-12 = 108.6-13.

Chronicles either uses or shares a source with Samuel and Kings.
Synoptic gospels (the synoptic problem).
Ephesians and Colossians.
Jude and 2 Peter.
Ben.
Ben C Smith is offline  
Old 10-23-2008, 08:27 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: California
Posts: 748
Default

Isn't the Sodom and Gomorrah story repeated pretty much verbatim in a later book (with different characters, of course, and a woman being cut into pieces)?
Roland is offline  
Old 10-23-2008, 09:18 PM   #15
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mondcivitan Republic
Posts: 2,550
Default

Then look at the alternate version of 2 Chronicles 35-36, all of Ezra, Nehemiah 7:38-8:12, plus additional material unparalled to OT, known as I Esdras (Lxx, KJV, RSV, or II Esdras in Russian Bible of Moscow Patriarchate, or III Esdras in the Vulgate).

A strong case was long ago made by Chas. C. Torrey that this and II Esdras (Lxx and I + II Esdras in Vulgate = Hebrew Ezra-Nehemiah) are independent translations of a common Hebrew/Aramaic original. There are a number of differences in order, etc.

DCH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben C Smith View Post
ETA: But the OT apocryphal books are certainly not off limits. [Ben]
DCHindley is offline  
Old 10-24-2008, 05:37 AM   #16
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,787
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCHindley View Post
Then look at the alternate version of 2 Chronicles 35-36, all of Ezra, Nehemiah 7:38-8:12, plus additional material unparalled to OT, known as I Esdras (Lxx, KJV, RSV, or II Esdras in Russian Bible of Moscow Patriarchate, or III Esdras in the Vulgate).
Good one, David. Esdras A (LXX) makes the list.

The titles of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esdras are so confusing. I have a table lining them out on several of my web pages, and I refer back to them often (including just now as I was parsing your paragraph above!).

Ben.

PS: As a matter of general interest, another hugely confusing biblical matter is the numeration of the psalms, since the LXX and the Masoretic differ by one psalm throughout most of the 150. Not to mention that the verses often differ between our versions, as well. And that the LXX adds Psalm 151. But I have a table for the chapter divisions on my site, too. (Nothing about the versification, though.)
Ben C Smith is offline  
Old 10-24-2008, 06:11 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 666
Default

ALL the 4 gospels are pretty much identical. they could have just included one gospel, it was unnecessary to have 4 almost identical gospels. but it's good that at least they didn't choose to have all 12.
Lucis is offline  
Old 10-24-2008, 07:27 AM   #18
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,787
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucis View Post
ALL the 4 gospels are pretty much identical.
John goes its own way most of the time. But the other three, the synoptic gospels, line up a good proportion of the time. I have these correspondences on my list already as the synoptic problem.

Quote:
they could have just included one gospel, it was unnecessary to have 4 almost identical gospels. but it's good that at least they didn't choose to have all 12.
I am glad the church chose to canonize four gospels instead of one. I sort of wish they had chosen to canonize every gospel they could find, no matter how weird, so that we would be sure to have them all, still extant and intact. (Text preservation matters more to me than strict questions of canonicity.)

Ben.
Ben C Smith is offline  
Old 10-24-2008, 07:59 AM   #20
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London UK
Posts: 16,024
Default

Genesis 20 and 26.

http://books.google.com/books?id=haV...um=7&ct=result
Clivedurdle is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:03 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.