Freethought & Rationalism Archive

arnoldo · 06-22-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perfectidius

<edit...brevity>
well I didn't even mention the porn, but the "happy ending" of 75,000 of the Jews "enemies" being murdered at the end.

Oh, and I think that it is poor writing, by the Bible' standards.

Daniel

Try reading the text again in context. . . King Xerxes issued an edict to have all of the Jews in his kingdom slaughtered in a holocaust. According to the text once a King issued a decree it cannot be revoked (this parallels Daniel 6:15) thus he cannot do anything to revoke this decree from happening. Instead Xerxes issues another decree granting the Jews the right to protect themselves, which they do, when they are attacked.

HaRaAYaH · 06-22-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Try reading the text again in context. . . King Xerxes issued an edict to have all of the Jews in his kingdom slaughtered in a holocaust. According to the text once a King issued a decree it cannot be revoked (this parallels Daniel 6:15) thus he cannot do anything to revoke this decree from happening. Instead Xerxes issues another decree granting the Jews the right to protect themselves, which they do, when they are attacked.

Try reading the text in Hebrew. Where is the word Holocaust used? Who is Xeres?????

arnoldo · 06-22-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaRaAYaH

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Try reading the text again in context. . . King Xerxes issued an edict to have all of the Jews in his kingdom slaughtered in a holocaust. According to the text once a King issued a decree it cannot be revoked (this parallels Daniel 6:15) thus he cannot do anything to revoke this decree from happening. Instead Xerxes issues another decree granting the Jews the right to protect themselves, which they do, when they are attacked.

Try reading the text in Hebrew.

I don't read hebrew, do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaRaAYaH

Where is the word Holocaust used?

Nowhere, but an edict was made in the text to have all of the jews slaughtered which fits the definition of a holocaust

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaRaAYaH

Who is Xeres?????

Xerxes is the king mentioned in the book of Esther.

HaRaAYaH · 06-22-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

don't read hebrew, do you?

Yes, though not as well as I would like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Nowhere, but an edict was made in the text to have all of the jews slaughtered which fits the definition of a holocaust

There is only one Holocaust. Even the Chelmnitsky programs which killed the same percentage of Jews as Hitler is NOT called a Holocaust. It is a singular and therefore unique event.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Xerxes is the king mentioned in the book of Esther.

The name you are looking for is Ahasuerus (Hebrew: אֲחַשְׁוֵרוֹשׁ,). It may or may not be Xeres, experts disagree.

HaRaAYaH · 06-22-2008, 10:12 PM

This has been an interesting discussion. I would suggest when non-Jews attempt to read a Jewish text, they should endeavor to find a Jewish version that includes a commentary.

Reading text without a commentary is always dangerous and leads to clear misinterpretations. Jewish texts translated into English will also explain the Hebrew and point out difficulties in the text as well as alternate meanings of words that may change the entire meaning of a passage.

HaRaAYaH · 06-22-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Out of curiosity, has anyone noticed the parallel between the incident of the hanging of the enemies of the jews in the Book of Esther and the hanging of a group of 10 Nazis sentenced to death by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal?

Twelve were sentenced to death.

Martin Bormann (Tried and convicted in absentia,)
Hans Frank
Wilhelm Frick
Hermann Göring (Committed suicide)
Alfred Jodl
Ernst Kaltenbrunner
Wilhelm Keitel
Joachim von Ribbentrop
Alfred Rosenberg
Fritz Sauckel
Arthur Seyss-Inquart
Julius Streicher

Unless you see the hand of God in this, I don't see this as a parallel.

arnoldo · 06-23-2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaRaAYaH

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Out of curiosity, has anyone noticed the parallel between the incident of the hanging of the enemies of the jews in the Book of Esther and the hanging of a group of 10 Nazis sentenced to death by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal?

Twelve were sentenced to death.

Martin Bormann (Tried and convicted in absentia,)
Hans Frank
Wilhelm Frick
Hermann Göring (Committed suicide)
Alfred Jodl
Ernst Kaltenbrunner
Wilhelm Keitel
Joachim von Ribbentrop
Alfred Rosenberg
Fritz Sauckel
Arthur Seyss-Inquart
Julius Streicher

Unless you see the hand of God in this, I don't see this as a parallel.

You are correct that 12 Nazis were sentenced to death however only 10 were actually hanged which is a parallel to the hanging of the ten sons of Haman in the book of Esther who also wanted to murder the jews.

arnoldo · 06-23-2008, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaRaAYaH

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

don't read hebrew, do you?

Yes, though not as well as I would like.

Well, I wish I could read hebrew in order to understand some of the original meaning of the bible instead of having to depend on an english translation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaRaAYaH

There is only one Holocaust. Even the Chelmnitsky programs which killed the same percentage of Jews as Hitler is NOT called a Holocaust. It is a singular and therefore unique event.

Point Taken

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Xerxes is the king mentioned in the book of Esther.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaRaAYaH

The name you are looking for is Ahasuerus (Hebrew: אֲחַשְׁוֵרוֹשׁ,). It may or may not be Xeres, experts disagree.

Thanks for the info. . .

squiz · 06-23-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perfectidius

But again, we see the same old Jewish themes: Jews getting political influence while cherry picking which laws of the land they will follow. A growing resentment agains the Jewish people. (Why? This is never explained in the story.)

Where do you see "Jews getting political influence while cherry picking which laws of the land they will follow" today?

Cesc · 06-23-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Nowhere, but an edict was made in the text to have all of the jews slaughtered which fits the definition of a holocaust

The word holocaust itself comes from Greek holókauston and denotes a "burnt offering".

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06-22-2008, 10:12 PM	#25
HaRaAYaH Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Wyncote PA Posts: 1,524	This has been an interesting discussion. I would suggest when non-Jews attempt to read a Jewish text, they should endeavor to find a Jewish version that includes a commentary. Reading text without a commentary is always dangerous and leads to clear misinterpretations. Jewish texts translated into English will also explain the Hebrew and point out difficulties in the text as well as alternate meanings of words that may change the entire meaning of a passage.

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