angela2

Steamer,

You have me at a disadvantage because you don't have any beliefs at all. That makes ridiculing your beliefs impossible. So you're better off. Or are you?

sharon45

Since he was indeed a liar he had the most to gain to keep things vague so his tracks were harder to follow.

steamer

If it will help Angela, I believe that the god you imagine isn't know to exist outside of the imagination.

Joan of Bark

It's clear from all my readings of both the NT and history that Jesus' followers sincerely believed He was returning IN THEIR LIFETIMES. Why wouldn't Jesus have made it clear to them that he might not return for 2,000 years or more? If believers today claim that he DID make it clear, then why do we hold his disciples in such high regard? They were clearly pretty stupid.

As others here have pointed out, Jesus, like his God, was wrong.

angela2

If you've read NT, it should be obvious to you that in many cases the disciples were pretty stupid. I think the point is, if even these dense people can eventually understand the good news after the resurrection, then everybody ought to be able to get it.

angela2

If it will help you, I believe that the reality you imagine isn't know outside your brain.

steamer

Even if little demons are feeding impulses directly into my brain, I can still tell the difference between what they feed me and what I generate myself. If the sensory input comes from outside it is a perceived idea. If it comes from the inside it is an imagined one. If I imagine something and wish to compare it to some perceieved idea, the little demons consistently are great sports about it and allow me make the comparison to what was perceived. If it is an internally generated idea then the little demons have no idea what impulses to feed me so they consistently show me nothing.

When I try to lift an actual rock, the demons consistently provide sensory input of some sort of strain and weight. Drop a large rock on your foot and you will feel the pain of it.

Rocks I only imagine are carried with no strain at all. Drop an imagined rock on your foot and you can only imagine the pain.

It is amusing to watch Christians try this kind of sophistry to show how reasonable they are to imagine god and then pretend he is something more. The little demons are consistent little buggers and never provide any sensory input for things we only imagine.

angela2

What of people who claim to have heard and/or seen God? According to your dichotomy, it must be the work of those same little demons. Such things can't be imagined. They are sensory input.

steamer

Both of us can describe what we imagine. That means that others can describe what they imagine as well. Little demons could feed us the description of an imagined thing, but not the thing itself.

xaxxat

Oh, we get it. It never happened...