Mujahid_Munafiq

hehe


"16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_c...entium_en.html

Joan of Bark

My understanding is that NO-ONE can be saved unless baptized in the Catholic church. This includes atheists, deists, Jews, muslims and protestants.

Mujahid_Munafiq

yes well, that's not what the lumen gentium says.

Splarnst

Who knows anymore? The Catholic Church changes their teachings just like every other sect, they just do it more slowly and subtly than any other. Vatican II was quite a jump though.

Hyndis

Why does the Vatican's opinion on this matter?

According to Islam, Christians (catholics, protestants, and orthodox) are probably all going to hell. Basically every religion says that if you're not part of that particular religion, bad things happen.

If every religion in the world was correct, everyone would be in hell when they died. :rolling:

lpetrich

The Catholic Church has long taught:

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus
Outside of the Church, there is no salvation

But I'm not sure what they say nowadays; do they redefine "Church" to include whatever non-Catholics they like?

Mujahid_Munafiq

That is false.

Gabe the Angel

Its a sales pitch, join us or go to hell, the problem with people and any religion is that they do not see the sales pitch, all they see is what they want to see. If you were told you would have eternal life by joining a religious group we would all fall for it, thats until you reason the madness of it all, joining that group and that faith, reading that book in that way, means that your saved. If you then start to see other groups who read their book in their way and they are going to be saved, you must be blind not to see the sales pitch involved. If your right and they are wrong, and they say they are right and your are wrong, its because your either all right or all wrong.

Hay, that could be a new track to put down, would anyone by it if it was made into a song, I could be right I coud be wrong. And If I told you that I love you all, and if I told you that we were made for each other mnnnnnnn, do be dooooooo mnnnnnnnnnnnn, yeah, yeah.....

premjan

Doesn't Islam claim only conditional salvation for Jews and Christians: e.g. only a certain number of Jews who live in Israel will be saved, only certain Christians (not Catholics) will be saved, and all Muslims are saved?

Mujahid_Munafiq

It says anyone who believes in God, believes in the last day, and leads a righteous life has nothing to fear.


002.062
YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

PICKTHAL: Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

SHAKIR: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the f Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.