Aravnah Ornan

Why does he need us to make him feel important? Why does he need to be made to feel important at all?

"Love me, or I'll send you to hell." I can come up with words for that, but "love" isn't one of them.

excreationist

So that he doesn't get depressed. BTW, we are made in the image of God... our emotional states were based on his... he gets angry, etc. Though his anger is holy and divine, unlike ours.

Jamie_L

That was my assumption.
But they could be hardwired to love God for exactly who he is.
I still don't see it. Love is an internal sensation that results in external behaviors. Whether you are hardwired or not, love will produce the same internal sensations, and those internal sensations will produce the same external behaviors. Whether programmed by God or by your own actions, the end state is the same: someone who loves god and acts accordingly.

Which brings me back to my need for specifics.

What does God gain from the love, and how are those potential gains impacted by the presence or lack of "hardwiring"?

Does "hardwired" love make God feel less loved? Less important? In what way?

Jamie

beastmaster

Your little Love-Slut puppy sounds like someone .. awfully familiar ... biblical even ... or perhaps merely the subject of an upcoming movie by Mel Gibson ...

I mean, it seems rather disingenuous to represent, OT1H, that Jesus Christ, who loves *everyone* without discrimination, is the ultimate, albeit unattainable, model of human behavior, and then, OTOH, claim that such love-sluttery is animalistic and sub-human and contrary to god's plan.

Why didn't God make us like Jesus, hardwired to love everyone, *including* god? Is Jesus really so bad?

Is Jesus's love rendered false just because he is predisposed (like your puppy) to love everyone irrespective of merit?

Your notion that love is genuine only if given voluntarily sounds a bit more like LaVey's Satanism than Xnty.

excreationist

It's a matter a principle I think...
e.g. say there were two realities.... one where all apples (or girls) were absolutely perfect... another where it is extremely rare for them to be perfect. In the first reality, if you discovered a perfect apple or girl it would be no big deal... it would happen all the time. In the second realm, it would be a lot more special since they overcame large odds in order to be perfect. And then if you collected all the perfect apples or girls (and threw the rest in the fire) you'd probably feel more impressed at your collection than if in your experience it is impossible for those things to be flawed.
I'm not saying that God would find any humans to be perfect... it's just that some would love him adequately enough to be worth holding onto.

He feels special and important and not lonely.

Discovering that things that are programmed to love you loving you is less impressive than discovering something that loves you that had the freedom to hate you. And in the second case they'd be more precious....
Maybe it is a bit like this:

Matt 18:12b-13 - ".....If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off."

Wayne Delia

If only people would continue reading the Bible for just a single verse after the ones they find significant. The "love God with all you got" mentioned here is the first of two so-called "Great Commandments" of Jesus. The second one, described in the next verse, is to love your neighbor as you love yourself. The obvious problem is the contradiction of how one is supposed to love oneself or one's neighbor at all, if all one's mind, heart, and other body parts are 100% focused on loving God. There's nothing left with which to love anyone else, so if the first "Great Commandment" is followed, then it's impossible to comply with the second.

WMD

excreationist

According to Luke 10:27 the commandments basically summarize as this:
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind" and "Love your neighbor as yourself."
I think Jesus actually loved God the most - more than he loved other people. He only preached for about 3 years(?) and only took a couple hours to die, then only went to hell for less than 2 days (mid-Friday to early Sunday)... then went back to Heaven.... so he didn't suffer that much for people.... and he is going to be the one who judges people and sends most people to hell.... that is the will of God... so he is loving God more than people. Whether Jesus is hard-wired to love God or not is kind of irrelevant since Jesus is "eternally begotten of the Father" and God doesn't change. If Jesus was adequate to satisfy God's need for love, perhaps God would have never made the world...

Jesus is God, and assuming he has high self-esteem it is natural for him to love his other personality (the Father). I'm not sure if Jesus loves his own personality much... Jesus's unconditional love for humans seems temporary...
Matthew 10:32-33
"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven."

Jesus is going to send people to hell (see Matt 25:31-46, etc)... so he isn't much of an insatiably loving puppy.

How about the idea that love is more precious if it is voluntary - since it can't be relied on.

excreationist

(Note that I'm an atheist)
If part of loving God and doing his will means to love and help others, then you can have some love for yourself and others....
Maybe that doesn't make sense... but that's the best I could think of.

beastmaster

The reason for this, of course, is that the Ancients did not believe in this free will garbage. They thought that people had "essential natures" that were revealed by dramatic situations, e.g., the "tragic flaw." That's why, when the disciples come to Jesus, it is said to be because they are "called" -- not because they are exercising "free will." Proponents of the FWD don't even understand their own freaking religion.

Wayne Delia

I don't recall concluding whether you were or were not an atheist.

Quote:

If part of loving God and doing his will means to love and help others, then you can have some love for yourself and others.... Maybe that doesn't make sense... but that's the best I could think of.

You are correct: it doesn't make sense. "Loving God" is defined in the First "Great Commandment" as literally devoting all parts of one's being that are capable of loving to the task of loving God. There's nothing left with which to love anyone or anything else. By default, then, the Second "Great Commandment" is trivially fulfilled: one must then love one's neighbor as one loves oneself, that is to say, with no love at all, because all the love is supposed to be given to God in the First "Great Commandment."

WMD