Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Minimalist · 06-14-2010, 06:38 PM

AA, I've run into xtians who swear that when 'jesus' was in high school ( I kid you not) when they called the roll the teacher said
" Christ, Jesus."

( I can not make this shit up. I'm not that clever. )

spamandham · 06-14-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimalist

AA, I've run into xtians who swear that when 'jesus' was in high school ( I kid you not) when they called the roll the teacher said
" Christ, Jesus."

( I can not make this shit up. I'm not that clever. )

Plus, he was a registered Republican.

mountainman · 06-14-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimalist

AA, I've run into xtians who swear that when 'jesus' was in high school ( I kid you not) when they called the roll the teacher said
" Christ, Jesus."

( I can not make this shit up. I'm not that clever. )

Plus, he was a registered Republican.

Additionally, according to the sources such as the "Infancy Gospel of Thomas" he repeated and arrogantly corrects the teacher.

arnoldo · 06-15-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

An essay in the Guardian

Ebion, the fictional heretic: The Ebionites, said to follow a non-existent Ebion, remained closer to Jesus's Jewishness than other Christians

Quote:

Writers dismissing the Ebionites started around 200 CE to assume that if there were Ebionites there must have been an Ebion, and they countered his errors. Within a century he had acquired a birthplace and rudimentary life story, and eventually even quotations from this heretical writings turned up.

...

The misunderstanding shows how over a few centuries the early church lost touch with its Jewish roots. It was already, by 200, failing to understand the language and the traditions of the people into which it was born. A hundred years later, while the church was imagining Ebion being born in Jordan and taking missionary journeys across Asia Minor to Rome, it also started imagining it was a reasonable idea to forbid Christians to eat with Jews. It increasingly reinterpreted its own teachings to make them fit into a Platonic rather than Hebrew worldview.

Tertullian (who wrote primarily in Latin) may've made the mistake of identifying Ebion as a person (Origen/Eusebius apparently didn't make this mistake). Tertullian (ca. 160 – ca. 220 A.D.) wrote;

Quote:

After him broke out the heretic Cerinthus, teaching similarly. For he, too, says that the world was originated by those angels; and sets forth Christ as born of the seed of Joseph, contending that He was merely human, without divinity; affirming also that the Law was given by angels; representing the God of the Jews as not the Lord, but an angel.

His successor was Ebion, not agreeing with Cerinthus in every point; in that he affirms the world to have been made by God, not by angels; and because it is written, "No disciple above his master, nor servant above his lord," sets forth likewise the law as binding, of course for the purpose of excluding the gospel and vindicating Judaism.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0319.htm

Cerinthus may also be another fictional heretic who was alleged to have opposed the Apostle John!

Quote:

There are also those who heard from him that John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and perceiving Cerinthus within, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, exclaiming, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within."
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/polycarp.html

show_no_mercy · 06-15-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Cerinthus may also be another fictional heretic who was alleged to have opposed the Apostle John!

Quote:

There are also those who heard from him that John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and perceiving Cerinthus within, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, exclaiming, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within."
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/polycarp.html

Cerinthians is only one letter removed from Corinthians!

aa5874 · 06-15-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

..Cerinthus may also be another fictional heretic who was alleged to have opposed the Apostle John!

Who would you use a fictional character to historicise another fictional character?

Would you claim that that some unknown character met Harry Potter to prove that the unknown character did exist?

NO. You would claim the unknown character met OBAMA.

The Church writer must have wanted to historicise the Apostle John so they used figures of history like Cerinthus just as the authors of the NT attempted to historicise Jesus by claiming the GOD/MAN was on trial before PILATE.

arnoldo · 06-15-2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimalist

Yes...as in because there are christians there must have been a christ.

Oh Oh!

The word "Christ" was was NOT derived from a human figure but from the "anointing with oil".

The HJ is irrelevant to the origin of Christ.

This is Tertullian in "Ad Nationes" 1.3

And Theophilus to Autolycus 1. 12

Quote:

Wherefore we are called Christians on this account, because we are anointed with the oil of God.

Paul of Samosata, another fictional heretic, apparently understood that "Christ" was a title rather than a name.

Quote:

" Having been anointed by the Holy Spirit he received the title of the anointed (i.e. Christos), suffering in accordance with his nature, working wonders in accordance with grace. For in fixity and resoluteness of character he likened himself to God; and having kept himself free from sin was united with God, and was empowered to grasp as it were the power and authority of wonders. By these he was shown to possess over and above the will, one and the same activity (with God), and won the title of Redeemer and Saviour of our race."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_of_Samosata

aa5874 · 06-15-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Oh Oh!

The word "Christ" was was NOT derived from a human figure but from the "anointing with oil".

The HJ is irrelevant to the origin of Christ.

This is Tertullian in "Ad Nationes" 1.3

And Theophilus to Autolycus 1. 12

Paul of Samosata, another fictional heretic, apparently understood that "Christ" was a title rather than a name.

Quote:

" Having been anointed by the Holy Spirit he received the title of the anointed (i.e. Christos), suffering in accordance with his nature, working wonders in accordance with grace. For in fixity and resoluteness of character he likened himself to God; and having kept himself free from sin was united with God, and was empowered to grasp as it were the power and authority of wonders. By these he was shown to possess over and above the will, one and the same activity (with God), and won the title of Redeemer and Saviour of our race."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_of_Samosata

But, how do you become anointed by the Holy Spirit? Who saw this "Holy Spirit" anointment? When did Paul of Samosata see Jesus receive the title of the anointed?

I don't think Paul of Samosata knew what he was talking about.

Please read the passage carefully. It does not make much sense.

When did Jesus WIN a title of Redeemer and Saviour of our race?

It is all MUMBO-Jumbo.

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06-14-2010, 06:38 PM	#11
Minimalist Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,808	AA, I've run into xtians who swear that when 'jesus' was in high school ( I kid you not) when they called the roll the teacher said " Christ, Jesus." ( I can not make this shit up. I'm not that clever. )

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