Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 03-25-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

.... But then there is a third name, Jehovah. What are we to make of that? ...

Quote:

Dr. J. B. Rotherham states in the preface of his Bible concerning Jehovah: "Erroneously written and pronounced Jehovah, which is merely a combination of the sacred Tetragrammaton and the vowels in the Hebrew word for Lord, substituted by the Jews for JHVH, because they shrank from pronouncing The Name, owing to an old misconception of the two passages, Ex. 20:7 and Lev. 24:16...To give the name JHVH the vowels of the word for Lord [Heb. Adonai], is about as hybrid a combination as it would be to spell the name Germany with the vowels in the name Portugal - viz., Gormuna. The monstrous combination Jehovah is not older than about 1520 A.D."

Jeffrey Gibson · 03-25-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

.... But then there is a third name, Jehovah. What are we to make of that? ...

Jehovah - YHWH - JHVH confusion

Quote:

Dr. J. B. Rotherham states in the preface of his Bible concerning Jehovah: "Erroneously written and pronounced Jehovah, which is merely a combination of the sacred Tetragrammaton and the vowels in the Hebrew word for Lord, substituted by the Jews for JHVH, because they shrank from pronouncing The Name, owing to an old misconception of the two passages, Ex. 20:7 and Lev. 24:16...To give the name JHVH the vowels of the word for Lord [Heb. Adonai], is about as hybrid a combination as it would be to spell the name Germany with the vowels in the name Portugal - viz., Gormuna. The monstrous combination Jehovah is not older than about 1520 A.D."

Wow! Toto and I agree on something. And this not long after Joseph Wallack and I did too.

What is the temperature in Hell these days?

Jeffrey

Minimalist · 03-25-2008, 03:55 PM

"I dont think it should be blasphemy just saying the name "Jehovah." "

angelo · 03-26-2008, 01:14 AM

O.k, that explains the name Jehovah. What about Elohim, I Am, and Yahweh or YHWH?
Are these not inventions and copies of copies and editing that's gone on for close on to 2.000 years? Are they not the imaginings of some scribe as to the name of god?
All the other ancient gods had names, so the Hewbrew god must also have a name.
Although for centuries, the name was regarded as a blasphemy if spoken in public.
Todays Jews still consider it so.

Ben C Smith · 03-26-2008, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

O.k, that explains the name Jehovah. What about Elohim, I Am, and Yahweh or YHWH?

Elohim is the Hebrew word (plural in form) for God. It is not a sacred word, and it is used of the pagan gods as well as of the God of Israel.

I am is just a verb in Hebrew, but one that closely resembles the name Yahweh. Hence the wording of Exodus 3.14, which reflects either a folk etymology or a simple pun.

YHWH and Yahweh are the same thing. The former (called the tetragrammaton when written in the Hebrew letters) simply lacks the vowels. Hebrew script lacked vowels for centuries. When it was finally vocalized (with vowel points, not actual letters), the name YHWH remained unvocalized in the manuscripts. As mentioned, Jehovah was a corruption (or attempted pronunciation) of Yahweh (the letters J and Y being frequently interchangeable, linguistically speaking). Yahweh itself is, I think, a modern vocalization of YHWH (I may be wrong on that; perhaps someone like spin can either correct this statement or confirm it).

Quote:

Are these not inventions and copies of copies and editing that's gone on for close on to 2.000 years? Are they not the imaginings of some scribe as to the name of god?

No.

Quote:

All the other ancient gods had names, so the Hewbrew god must also have a name.

Yes, his name was Yahweh, according to the texts.

Ben.

John Kesler · 03-26-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

All the other ancient gods had names, so the Hewbrew god must also have a name.

Hewbrew? Isn't that the name of a Jewish beer? Sorry.

The most common name for the Hebrew god is Yahweh, but there are others. I think that you will find this article from Harper’s Bible Dictionary to be of interest.

ChandraRama · 03-26-2008, 12:21 PM

//In the original First century text the crucified man was John or Simon, who considered himself a son of the God Yeshua.
//

Any proof?

Toto · 03-26-2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChandraRama

//In the original First century text the crucified man was John or Simon, who considered himself a son of the God Yeshua.
//

Any proof?

This is Philosopher Jay's hypothetical reconstruction.

angelo · 03-27-2008, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kesler

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

All the other ancient gods had names, so the Hewbrew god must also have a name.

Hewbrew? Isn't that the name of a Jewish beer? Sorry.

The most common name for the Hebrew god is Yahweh, but there are others. I think that you will find this article from Harper’s Bible Dictionary to be of interest.

Thanks for the site. I would rather a hewbrew ale than a Hebrew preacher.

Then again, I have yet to taste a Jewish ale. Do they actually make one? :Cheeky:

John Kesler · 03-27-2008, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

Thanks for the site. I would rather a hewbrew ale than a Hebrew preacher.

Then again, I have yet to taste a Jewish ale. Do they actually make one? :Cheeky:

If they don't, they should. Here's a verse that you aren't likely to hear quoted at your local church this Sunday:

Quote:

Deuteronomy 14:22-25a

22 Set apart a tithe of all the yield of your seed that is brought in yearly from the field. 23 In the presence of Yahweh your God, in the place that he will choose as a dwelling for his name, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, your wine, and your oil, as well as the firstlings of your herd and flock, so that you may learn to fear Yahweh your God always. 24 But if, when Yahweh your God has blessed you, the distance is so great that you are unable to transport it, because the place where Yahweh your God will choose to set his name is too far away from you, 25 then you may turn it into money. With the money secure in hand, go to the place that Yahweh your God will choose; 26 spend the money for whatever you wish--oxen, sheep, wine, strong drink, or whatever you desire.

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03-25-2008, 03:55 PM	#13
Minimalist Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,808	"I dont think it should be blasphemy just saying the name "Jehovah." "

03-26-2008, 01:14 AM	#14
angelo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 5,706	O.k, that explains the name Jehovah. What about Elohim, I Am, and Yahweh or YHWH? Are these not inventions and copies of copies and editing that's gone on for close on to 2.000 years? Are they not the imaginings of some scribe as to the name of god? All the other ancient gods had names, so the Hewbrew god must also have a name. Although for centuries, the name was regarded as a blasphemy if spoken in public. Todays Jews still consider it so.

03-26-2008, 12:21 PM	#17
ChandraRama Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: US Posts: 107	//In the original First century text the crucified man was John or Simon, who considered himself a son of the God Yeshua. // Any proof?

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