FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-03-2010, 03:32 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Italy
Posts: 708
Default

Quote:
At that time, the myth of the Holy Virgin had not been developed...
There are three competing theories about the question of the brethren of Jesus :

· The theory of Helvidius, written before 383. The brothers and sisters of Jesus are the children of Joseph and Mary, born after Jesus. Helvidius supported his opinion by the writings of Tertullian (ca.160 – ca. 220) and Victorinus (died 303 or 304) of Poetovio (Ptuj, Slovenia).

· The theory of Epiphanius (ca. 310–320 – 403) was bishop of Salamis and metropolitan of Cyprus at the end of the 4th century. The brothers and sisters of Jesus are the children of a previous marriage of Joseph.

· The theory of Saint Jerome (c. 347 – September 30, 420). The "brothers and sisters" of Jesus are really his cousins, born of a brother of Joseph, Clopas by name, and a sister of Mary, bearing the same name, Mary.
.
The reality of the facts, as I already have explained in the past, involves the first two theses: that of Helvidius and that of Epiphanius. Jerome, instead, is shamelessly lying! (he certainly known the truth)

The two twin sons of the Virgin Mary, namely Jesus and Judas called Thomas (ie twin: in greek 'Didymus'), had as their father Tiberius Julius said 'Abdes', said 'Panthera'. James the 'minor' (because the most young among his brothers), also called the 'Right', was instead the son of the Virgin Mary and of her second husband.

Simon and 'Joseph' (actually John), were the sons of the Virgin Mary's second husband (known as 'Alpheus', called 'Cleophas' also) and a previous his wife: probably still alive when he married the mother of Jesus. The roman legionary 'Panthera' (see Celsus) was not the first husband of the Virgin, as it was another character, whence Mary had no children.


Greetings

Littlejohn

.
Littlejohn is offline  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:12 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Italy
Posts: 708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

In those days Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. And just as he was coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens torn apart and the Spirit descending like a dove on him. And a voice came from heaven, ‘You are my Son, the Beloved; with you I am well pleased.’In Sunday school, I thought of this as boring. The one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to stoop down and untie the thong of his sandals. Yeah, that is what I have heard all of my life, and nobody measures up to Jesus, yeah, I get it. With a new critical vantage point, I can now, more interestingly, explain why this gushingly humble quote from John the baptizer was included. At the time this was written, the Jewish cult of John the baptizer was a competitor on the same level as the Jewish cult of Jesus, maybe smaller, but I am guessing bigger.
.
"..And just as he was coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens torn apart and the Spirit descending like a dove on him.."

There is a grain of truth in this recount, as there is some truth in many gospel stories: stories, however, that use this truth distorting it in a more or less deep way, depending on the circumstances and needs.

There was indeed a dove in the episode of the baptism of Jesus, only that the dove did not come down from heaven, as recounted by the counterfeiter evangelists, but it was launched by the mother of Jesus, who was present at the baptism of her son (baptism that she had solicited). There was a specific reason behind the behavior of the Jesus' mother .... But here the speech you expands considerably.

It is also true, as reported by the evangelists, that John the Baptist initially refused to baptize Jesus, as we find confirmation of this in the literature of the Mandaeans. Obviously the reason for such a refusal was not that reported by the evangelists:

Matthew - chap.3:

[13] Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. [14] But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

From the same literature of Mandaeans we learn that they and John himself had little esteem for Jesus, definied by them a traitor and a trickster (surprisingly the same opinion that the Jesus' Jews contemporaries had of him: see Talmud).

Ergo, it is extremely unlikely that John the Baptist has put forward such an explanation ("...I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?..") to justify its refusal to baptize Jesus. It was probably the insistence of the Nazarene's mother to convince John to baptize his son. It is, instead, far more likely that the refusal of John may have been caused by the loss of esteem in respect of the Nazarene.

There is also the concrete possibility that the refusal of John can be reconnected to the contents of the letter by Clement of Alexandria, discovered by deceased Morton Smith whitin the monastery of Mar Saba, southeast of Jerusalem. The contents of a heathen text of the second century corroborates such a hypothesis.

Greetings

Littlejohn

.
Littlejohn is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:41 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.