Lugubert

In for example the western parts of Sweden, that not very well disguised "thanksgiving" surived until the 1950's. From 1986, it is not recognozed in the official ritual.

seven8s

Yep, give a man enough rope he’ll hang himself every time. Have a problem with women, eh?

Anyway, notice that there is only one time in the NT that Jesus must ask “who touched me�?, as healing went from himself to another. Now if Jesus is supernatural as implied by the scripture, why does he ask, who touched me. Didn’t he know? He knew all about Nathaniel before he saw him under the fig tree. What is it he doesn’t know about this women?

A women who had an “issued�? of blood touched him. She had an issue, and it goes all the way back to Eve' but as Hinduwoman points out acrossthe board. Jesus’ not knowing who touched him is a allegory which perhaps states that he does not recognize the traditionally held concept of impurity in women, as has been traditionally held amongst the populace perpetrated by the religious leaders (males). He is stating, she is not impure, she is not a sinner.

Now as to why religions teach that women are impure during menses, simple, projection. It is evidence of males impotence, sense of inferioity. Jesus is transferring man's problem back to man.

Notice from the above quote that in many cultures today this vengeance against women thrives.

premjan

I might have a problem with women sometimes. But why did you bring that up? I thought Wicca involved "witches" hence somewhat female-oriented. It is common knowledge that many men in goddess-worshipping areas of India are a bit mother-pampered, wife-whipped. No reflection on me personally I think.

seven8s

Please, don’t play coy (feigned innocence) with me, it’s condescending.
You think or you know, which one is it? Another culture is not a reflection on you, YOU are a reflection on you. YOU are a reflection on your parents. Notice that you have TWO parents, one male, one female. You are their glory and their shame. You could be one or the other, that’s Your choice, not theirs. Your language is foul and offensive, it is purposefully foul and offensive! Which have you brought forth, your parents glory or their shame?

Now personally, I don’t want to know their shame..................lets see if you can reword what you’ve said and bring forth their glory.

You have a problem with women, ‘sometimes’? No, you have a big problem with women that’s why you brought out the big word. Well if you don’t work that out it will always haunt you and merely be repeated in the next generation................is that what you want, shame repeated, and repeated, and repeated? What chance do your children have in such a future? The world’s changing young man, get a grip. That’s why I brought it up. Only you can correct it, I just merely gave you a starting point.

premjan

I am sorry I appear to have pressed all the wrong buttons in the gentle reader. I meant it in a descriptive not an evaluative sense. There is a power equation between men and women in many societies. For instance, many Islamic women probably have lower power in their relationships with men due to the masculine cast of that society. Anecdotal comments lead me to believe that some other countries such as Russia and possibly some Meditteranean nations have the same tendencies. By the same token, there are societies where women rule and call the shots. Where there is contention for power between two sexes, there is often no peace or progress. Some countries and some cultures have larger than usual numbers of delinquent men. Women are less usually dissolute and useless than men on average, though I suppose drugs and prostitution are common in some societies among women (might be the fault of the societies or the fault of the women, immaterial).

I have been at the receiving end of female eagerness to topple the power equation. By the same token I have seen men be very actively political and egotistical. Both are fundamentally problematic. Basically wherever people have some anxiety about their own importance or influence and an opportunity to rise in influence this kind of horse trading goes on. It is even the core of the human struggle (keeping up with John and Jane you might say, or the battle of the sexes or whatever).

Personally I prefer a situation where I'm OK and you're OK (and this applies equally to everyone). I do not want men to be bullied by women (they are sometimes) or women to be bullied by men (this is attempted rather more often). In fact, I have a daughter and I wish her to grow up strong and independent and capable of loving a man (or woman) without needing to put the other person down.

Amen.

rockNhardplace

The woman in the NT had been menstruating non-stop for 12 years. In the old testament days, a Jewish woman mestruating was ceremonially unclean. No one was allowed to touch her, everything she sat on or laid on was unclean. She had spent all her money on doctors and remedies and went to Christ for a last-ditch try for healing. So she touched His garment in a crowd and He knew it. He knew whom had touched Him. But I believe He wanted to connect with her and heal her life as well as her health. Plus, He did the unprecedented: He addressed her as "daughter", did not point out her assumed sinful causes fro her malady, and blessed her. According to author Joyce Holliday in her book called Clothed with the Sun, "With one blessing, he proclaimed female bodies holy."

It isn't so much the religious view of female body processes which bother me, but the cultures'. Misogyny crosses religious lines most of the time in my opinion.

seven8s

First, let me say, thank you.

No you pushed all the right buttons, you simply are unaware of what you pushed. You were looking for something even though you may not have been aware you were looking. I merely obliged you. Gentle? Don’t be fooled.

One cannot describe until one has evaluated. Evaluation starts in what one thinks one has observed, one then forms a description to express that observation. Don’t look at other women, nor men. Look within yourself, that you may look towards your daughter with the love and respect she deserves, which comes first from a father who has learned to love and respect himself. If you do not love yourself you cannot extend love to your daughter, you can only project to her hatred, self hatred.

Women rock the cradle. They raise future men. They are not innocent in human development. They are equal. If they choose to buy into a lower power they have no one to blame but themselves. I am not blaming men because of the unequal status of women in society, but I will correct any perception that tries to keep women there.

There is a tradition in the Jewish culture concerning hems (of clothing). I am not sure if I remember it correctly but it is an important element to the story I originally posted about the women reaching out to touch Jesus. She reached for his hem, or the hem of his clothing. If I remember correctly, Jews shake the hem of their clothing on Yom Kippur, to symbolizes shaking out, off, the sin. Notice she wasn’t interested in meeting Jesus, she was interested in healing herself. All it takes is one, to turn it all around.

Don’t listen to anecdotal (definition: an account regarded as unreliable, hearsay) comments. Listen to yourself. Your daughter, and any future son depends upon it. Mothers may rock the cradle, but fathers set the pace. Perhaps the most useful comment in your above quote is “immaterial�?. The woman who reached out to touch the hem wasn’t accepting nor placing blame, she was simply acknowledging that there is an ancient issue between men and women and she was doing her part to heal herself, hence “it�?. We save ourselves, others don’t save us. It’s “immaterial�? how we got ourselves in this mess. How is one going to get him, or her self out? A power struggle? Won’t work!

Yep, there’s fault to be found on both sides of the issue. I don’t know how to save the world but by one, me.

Well done Premjan, your parents have reason to be proud. I too prefer a situation where I’m ok and you’re ok. I have 2 son’s and 2 daughters. If I bash/blame men I hurt my son’s. If my husband bashes/blames women he hurts my daughters. Simple as that.

I wish your daughter, your wife, and yourself well.

Namaste

seven8s

No, he did not know who touched him (Luke 8:43-48). And, no, he did not heal her, her faith healed her. Her faith in what? Certainly not Jesus, he couldn’t heal her. The text specifically states, but no one could heal her. Never mentions doctors, never mentions money (though some scripture have added that as time went by). We save, heal ourselves.

Of course you are free to interpret the scripture in any way your minister tells you, or Joyce Holliday for that matter, but God gave me a brain and it gets a little soft when I don’t use it.

No he did not want to connect with her, had he wanted that he would have reached out first. He did not. Notice he says that ‘power’ has gone out from me. Yep, by assertiveness, she took the wind out of his, mans, sails.

Men have sailed on the impurity of women for too long; it is a greater tragedy when women do.

I notice that Ms. Holliday’s book is titled, “Clothed with the sun�?. Is that a typo? Do you know the symbolism of the sun in Hebrew? If you want to understand the NT, you need first to understand the OT, and that takes an immeasurable amount of willingness. It’s not what you’ve been taught. Try a Hebrew lexicon, then throw out everything you have been told and start new.

Jesus doesn’t proclaim my body anything, I do.

But then again, you’re free to do what you want with yours, but you are not free to continue to corrupt the bodies of the women before you no matter how ancient, or dead, they may be.

Shven

In neo-pagan circles the word 'witch' is non gender-specific. In fairness there probably is a slightly higher number of female neopagans than male, but the difference isn't anywhere near as high as most people think.

premjan

I am led to believe that the mythical search for purity is the real problem. From purity arises puritanism: religion instead of reason. Rather better to recognize that purity lies all around you (like the Tao) and nothing more is needed to achieve purity than purity of (ethical) intention perhaps.