Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amaleq13 · 06-20-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

Are you sure that Josephus mentioned every evil deed that Herod did?

No but I am sure that isn't necessary to conclude he certainly would have mentioned such a horrible crime if he had known of it.

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Are you sure that Josephus knew of every evil deed that Herod did?

I am reasonably sure Herod would have been incapable of keeping such a crime a secret.

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You don't know enough about him to know that he was off somewhere else.

IIRC, he was busy in the mountains with bandits.

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If you read some of the discussions about him...

I'm quite familiar thanks. That's why I know there is no credible argument for an earlier governorship.

Quote:

The Bible is correct.

I agree that Luke is correct when he writes that a census was conducted when Quirinius took office.

angelo · 06-21-2008, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

We have Josephus who, despite clearly enjoying listing out the evils of Herod, failed to mention the alleged mass murder of children. It simply is not credible that such a crime would have gone unmentioned. This is a relatively strong argument from silence.

Are you sure that Josephus mentioned every evil deed that Herod did? Are you sure that Josephus knew of every evil deed that Herod did?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

We don't have his diary but, yes, we know enough about him to say we know he was off elsewhere at the time doing something else. We also know the specific circumstances that lead to his taking the position in Judea and when those took place. Herod had been dead for nearly a decade before Quirinius took office.

No. You don't know enough about him to know that he was off somewhere else. If you read some of the discussions about him, you will see that he was in the area and in a position to have had authority in the area. We don't have his diary to know all the details, but you are making bold claims when you say you know that your guess about the situation from 2000 years away is more accurate than the records of those who were alive at the time. The Bible is correct.

Then the bible is guilty of failing to inform of another miracle which all the others pale into insignificance. A ten year pregnancy :Cheeky: As Amalq has stated there's a decade between Herod's death and Quirinius taking office.

dr lazer blast · 06-21-2008, 08:08 AM

considering the fact that amaleq cannot make a point without a fallicy I am wondering if there are any other criticisms about my narrative?

Amaleq13 · 06-21-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr lazer blast

considering the fact that amaleq cannot make a point without a fallicy...

Spelling fallacy incorrectly in yet another false accusation? At least you spelled my screen name correctly this time.

Quote:

...I am wondering if there are any other criticisms about my narrative?

More for you to mischaracterize, misunderstand and ignore? Why should anyone bother when you've made it clear you either lack the ability or the willingness to deal honestly with the texts or the demonstrated flaws in your effort?

You pretend the texts don't say what the do and insist they do say what they don't. There isn't a chance in hell you'll ever be able to meet Barker's challenge. :wave:

aChristian · 06-21-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

Quote:

Originally Posted by aChristian

Are you sure that Josephus mentioned every evil deed that Herod did? Are you sure that Josephus knew of every evil deed that Herod did?

No. You don't know enough about him to know that he was off somewhere else. If you read some of the discussions about him, you will see that he was in the area and in a position to have had authority in the area. We don't have his diary to know all the details, but you are making bold claims when you say you know that your guess about the situation from 2000 years away is more accurate than the records of those who were alive at the time. The Bible is correct.

Then the bible is guilty of failing to inform of another miracle which all the others pale into insignificance. A ten year pregnancy :Cheeky: As Amalq has stated there's a decade between Herod's death and Quirinius taking office.

You missed the point. Try re-reading.

angelo · 06-22-2008, 03:21 AM

What is there to re-read. You have Pauls writings, then you have the 4 gospels written by who knows who. Then you have the writings of Josephus who's only mention of the Jebus tale is a hearsay of early christians and a interpolation of his history of the Jews by the early christians who could not accept that the mighty Josephus failed to mention any Jezus in his retelling of the history of that particular time's Jewish history.
Place them all together and it seems like a jig saw puzzle with half the pieces missing.

No honest historian can attempt a believable history out of that mess.
No wonder we have so many versions of christianity in existence.
Which is the true christianity? J/Ws, Morons, 7th day Adventist, Catholic, Protestant.
Which ???
What proof is there that the babble is true??
None I suspect.
All theists should study the origins of the babble, who actually wrote it? What were the authors beliefs? Were the tales they wrote down oral traditions that stretched back thousands of years? If so, how on earth can they be interpreted as ''the word of god.''?
It must be admited by the staunchest believer that there are many more questions than answers.

sschlichter · 06-22-2008, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

What is there to re-read. You have Pauls writings, then you have the 4 gospels written by who knows who. Then you have the writings of Josephus who's only mention of the Jebus tale is a hearsay of early christians and a interpolation of his history of the Jews by the early christians who could not accept that the mighty Josephus failed to mention any Jezus in his retelling of the history of that particular time's Jewish history.
Place them all together and it seems like a jig saw puzzle with half the pieces missing.

No honest historian can attempt a believable history out of that mess.
No wonder we have so many versions of christianity in existence.
Which is the true christianity? J/Ws, Morons, 7th day Adventist, Catholic, Protestant.
Which ???
What proof is there that the babble is true??
None I suspect.
All theists should study the origins of the babble, who actually wrote it? What were the authors beliefs? Were the tales they wrote down oral traditions that stretched back thousands of years? If so, how on earth can they be interpreted as ''the word of god.''?
It must be admited by the staunchest believer that there are many more questions than answers.

:snooze:
I will tell most of humainty that you feel this way. In the meantime, are we going to discuss the alleged contradictions in the easter story soon?

dr lazer blast · 06-22-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Spelling fallacy incorrectly in yet another false accusation? At least you spelled my screen name correctly this time.

wow instead of addressing the point you just comment on my spelling...speaking of fallacies...

Quote:

More for you to mischaracterize, misunderstand and ignore? Why should anyone bother when you've made it clear you either lack the ability or the willingness to deal honestly with the texts or the demonstrated flaws in your effort?

You pretend the texts don't say what the do and insist they do say what they don't. There isn't a chance in hell you'll ever be able to meet Barker's challenge. :wave:

you had a point that joy was incapadable with doubt which is why I continued to go back and forth with you about it, then when I pointed out that fear came after joy (contrary to your numerous assertins), your entire argument fell apart and you started using arguments from authority and contradicting yourself.

Amaleq13 · 06-22-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr lazer blast

wow instead of addressing the point you just comment on my spelling...speaking of fallacies...

You didn't have a point. You were just repeating the same false claims yet again. That you spelled "fallacy" incorrectly while doing so is just funny.

Quote:

you had a point that joy was incapadable with doubt...

Yes, joy and doubt are incompatible and that point still stands in denial of your implausible reading of the texts. As I already pointed out, your argument requires one to pretend the text doesn't say what it plainly says.

Quote:

...then when I pointed out that fear came after joy (contrary to your numerous assertins)...

The fear came with the joy but your attempt to change the explicitly described "fear" into "doubt" has already been recognized as an equivocation. As I also already pointed out, your argument requires one to pretend the text says something it does not.

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...your entire argument fell apart and you started using arguments from authority and contradicting yourself.

My logically sound appeal to an expert continues to establish the plain reading of John 20:2 over your apparently unique, unsupported and implausible reading. Your consistent failure to accurately grasp my arguments does not constitute a contradiction on my part.

I suspect, like your reading of John 20:2, you are entirely alone in your reading of this thread and our exchange. Unless you add something new, I'm not going to respond to your repeated, empty assertions of success. :wave:

angelo · 06-23-2008, 05:18 AM

[QUOTE=sschlichter;5406375]

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

What is there to re-read. You have Pauls writings, then you have the 4 gospels written by who knows who. Then you have the writings of Josephus who's only mention of the Jebus tale is a hearsay of early christians and a interpolation of his history of the Jews by the early christians who could not accept that the mighty Josephus failed to mention any Jezus in his retelling of the history of that particular time's Jewish history.
Place them all together and it seems like a jig saw puzzle with half the pieces missing.

No honest historian can attempt a believable history out of that mess.
No wonder we have so many versions of christianity in existence.
Which is the true christianity? J/Ws, Morons, 7th day Adventist, Catholic, Protestant.
Which ???
What proof is there that the babble is true??
None I suspect.
All theists should study the origins of the babble, who actually wrote it? What were the authors beliefs? Were the tales they wrote down oral traditions that stretched back thousands of years? If so, how on earth can they be interpreted as ''the word of god.''?
It must be admited by the staunchest believer that there are many more questions than answers.

:snooze:

Quote:

I will tell most of humainty that you feel this way. In the meantime, are we going to discuss the alleged contradictions in the easter story soon?

The alleged contradictions??? When was the last time you read the babble? In particular the easter tale.

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06-21-2008, 08:08 AM	#333
dr lazer blast Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: charleston sc Posts: 1,622	considering the fact that amaleq cannot make a point without a fallicy I am wondering if there are any other criticisms about my narrative?

06-22-2008, 03:21 AM	#336
angelo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 5,706	What is there to re-read. You have Pauls writings, then you have the 4 gospels written by who knows who. Then you have the writings of Josephus who's only mention of the Jebus tale is a hearsay of early christians and a interpolation of his history of the Jews by the early christians who could not accept that the mighty Josephus failed to mention any Jezus in his retelling of the history of that particular time's Jewish history. Place them all together and it seems like a jig saw puzzle with half the pieces missing. No honest historian can attempt a believable history out of that mess. No wonder we have so many versions of christianity in existence. Which is the true christianity? J/Ws, Morons, 7th day Adventist, Catholic, Protestant. Which ??? What proof is there that the babble is true?? None I suspect. All theists should study the origins of the babble, who actually wrote it? What were the authors beliefs? Were the tales they wrote down oral traditions that stretched back thousands of years? If so, how on earth can they be interpreted as ''the word of god.''? It must be admited by the staunchest believer that there are many more questions than answers.

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