MattBeckwith

Ah, there we go, I finally get an answer to my question. Thank-you.

And this explains why I don't like it. It implies that God is not benevolent.

Ronin

When did I accuse you of being a hypocrite?

:huh:

cajela

Here. Perhaps you didn't realise the parable is about hypocrisy.

Ronin

Well, I was using the beam/eye kind of thing to illustrate that it is not only Fundamentalist Christians who exhibit the kind of behavior that MattBeckwith is turned off by.

He felt the need to bring up his own Catholic upbringing as if it promoted some different behavior.

I merely pointed out that his eye seemed obstructed from seeing Catholicism in the same negative light for some reason since it was he who singled out "Fundamentalist Christians" and not Catholics.

Fwiw, MattBeckwith isn't a "hypocrite" simply because he doesn't "get it at all"...sometimes "the beam" isn't detected at all as is probably the case in this instance.

Revolutionary has it right as well.

That said, let's put this to a test:

Do Catholics overtly pronounce that God should be worshipped, praised, glorified, etc. as well, MattBeckwith?

:huh:

cajela

Yeah, I see your point, but to one reasonably educated in the bible it *looks* like you're calling him a hypocrite. You are using it topsy turvy.

I'm just trying to help comunications here...

Here is the context:

Luk 6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

steamer

My understanding is that the Christian god needs to have Christians standing around telling him he's a handsome fellow. This is the end-state of the universe supposedly, the very reason god went to all the trouble of creating anything to begin with. He also doesn't want people around that don't think he's a handsome fellow and these he tortures.

I'm not sure what it is that the Christian god previously lacked or how his existance is any better for having created anything with this end-state in mind. I really can't even see how this provides a Christians life with any purpose unless you consider hell-avoidance a purpose. Personally I can't see that their idea of heaven is much worse than hell over the long run. Its just another kind of hell.

Funny though, most Christians do think that their god would not be quite as happy if they personally and Christianity in general did not exist. God needs them for some unfathomable reason. If he did not need them, then god has no reason to have created them. God needs a reason to do things or he is caprecious and if he is then it is merely his whim to chuck us all into the torture chamber both Christian and Heathen alike. Perhaps this praise thing is just more hell-avoidance?

Thanatoast

I'll have to agree with Ronin on this one, that there isn't a whole lot of difference between Roman Catholics and Protestant Evangelicals (fundamantalists, if you will) when it comes to "praising god". I'll go even further than their shared theological reasons behind their beliefs, but to their practices as well. While it may seem that one side has the exclusive rights to excessively-vocal, emotional worship, that isn't the case.

Witness so-called Charismatic Catholics. They can hold their own against any fundy denomination when it comes to loud, rambling Jesus-sycophancy. They'll even practice glossolalia - speaking in tongues. This doesn't happen at a Mass, as far as I know, but at prayer meetings and other get-togethers. I once attended a college group that had many CC's in it, and lemme tell ya, it was like being in a Pentacostal church.

Counter this to the many evangelical groups whose services have always been pretty tame affairs. A little music, a little prayer, and a sermon from the preacher. No shouting, no Nazi-salute-like hand raising, no jumping for joy.

Ronin

I think that Jesus should have stopped by just showing that there are similarities between the beams in the respective eyes and not flamed the discussion with rude invective.



Of course, I also have found (after years of studying biblical scripture) that Jesus isn't quite the font of perfect morality and correct civil behavior that many seem to promote as a default.

Perhaps I'll start another thread and address that issue.