sschlichter

so the sum of all you know about the Jewish messiah comes from these 3 sources alone? anything else said about the Messiah is invalid because it is not mentioned in these 3 sources? Is their no other possible source of information about the Jewish expectations in AD70?

that's interesting.

sschlichter

so, if expecting a military-political leader, what is it you are expecting him to do when he arrives?

sschlichter

But now, what did the most elevate them in undertaking this war, was an ambiguous oracle that was also found in their sacred writings, how," about that time, one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth."

This quote says that Josephus felt that an expectation of a Messiah (found in their sacred writings) was what elevated them in undertaking this war. The expectation was that a person should become governor of the habitable earth.

Please describe how a Jewish governor of the habitable earth is specifically not a Messianic expectation.

Avi,

Do you live in the detroit area?

aa5874

Do you think that the military-political Messiah was expected to SPIT in people's eyes to make them see? Or make his face SHINE like the sun, resurrect, ascend through the clouds and claim he is coming back a second time for DEAD believers?

sschlichter

By any that read the OT expectantly, yes. Of course.


Healing of the lame and blind

(Isa 29:18) At that time the deaf will be able to hear words read from a scroll,
and the eyes of the blind will be able to see through deep darkness.
(Isa 29:19) The downtrodden will again rejoice in the LORD;
the poor among humankind will take delight in the Holy One of Israel.

(Isa 35:5) Then blind eyes will open,
deaf ears will hear.
(Isa 35:6) Then the lame will leap like a deer,
the mute tongue will shout for joy;
for water will flow in the desert,
streams in the wilderness.

Resurrection

(Isa 53:9) They intended to bury him with criminals,
but he ended up in a rich man's tomb,
because he had committed no violent deeds,
nor had he spoken deceitfully.
(Isa 53:10) Though the LORD desired to crush him and make him ill,
once restitution is made,
he will see descendants and enjoy long life,
and the LORD's purpose will be accomplished through him.
(Isa 53:11) Having suffered, he will reflect on his work,
he will be satisfied when he understands what he has done.
"My servant will acquit many,
for he carried their sins.
(Isa 53:12) So I will assign him a portion with the multitudes,
he will divide the spoils of victory with the powerful,
because he willingly submitted to death
and was numbered with the rebels,
when he lifted up the sin of many
and intervened on behalf of the rebels."

Ascension

(Psa 68:18) You ascend on high,
you have taken many captives.
You receive tribute from men,
including even sinful rebels.
Indeed the LORD God lives there!

Return for DEAD beleivers

(Psa 22:27) Let all the people of the earth acknowledge the LORD and turn to him!
Let all the nations worship you!
(Psa 22:28) For the LORD is king
and rules over the nations.
(Psa 22:29) All of the thriving people of the earth will join the celebration and worship;
all those who are descending into the grave will bow before him,
including those who cannot preserve their lives.

aa5874

Now can you point out to me where these passages clearly refers to Jesus, the offspring of the Holy Ghost.

You are just cherry-picking verses at random and then claiming they are prophecies.

Philo, a Jew from Alexandria, and Josephus, a Jew who lived in Galilee or Trypho, the Jew in Justin Martyr's writing wrote or said nothing about your passages with reference to anyone named Jesus the son of the God of the Jews and offspring of the Holy Ghost.

You MUST show that the Jews actually regarded your passages as prophecies with respect to the offspring of the Holy Ghost.

Anyone can do like you and just look for verses in the OT and claim that they refer to the resurrected and ascended son of the God of the Jews.

I do not deal with ambiguities and wild speculations, just show me the following words in the OT: Jesus, the offspring of the Holy Ghost or the son of the God of the Jews, will be baptised by John the Baptist, Jesus will be crucified, Jesus will resurrect, Jesus will ascend or Jesus will come back for the DEAD.

If you cannot show me those words in the OT you are wasting my time.

By the way, I hope you realise that the word "LORD" is used in the OT to mean the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Israel, God the Creator but NEVER once in the OT did "LORD" refer to any being called Jesus, the offspring of the Holy Ghost.

And you are actually showing how easy it was to take verses out of context to fabricate false prophecies.

sschlichter

The Jews that wrote the New Testament supplied these Messianic prophecies for you, not me. You can google Messianic prophecy as well as I can, please help yourself.

aa5874

Well, just show me where in any of the Jesus stories called the Gospels do you see any of the authors identify themselves and claim that they are Jews.

No well-known non-apologetic Jewish writer in the 1st century has written that Jews wrote the NT.

It is extremely naive to think that only Jews can write about characters, real or fictitious, in Judaea or any where else in the world.

And you can google "Jesus Christ" and see that he was claimed to be the offspring of the Holy Ghost, who resurrected and ascended through the clouds.

angelo

What seems to be forgotten here is that the gospellers whoever they were did exactly that.
Look in the OT for clues or prophecy for this Jesus character.
Any statement such as Isa 28;18 was grabbed with both hands as proof of their christ.
Nothing is further from the truth.
Both Isa.-1 and 2 are speaking of their own time, not some event hundreds of years into the future. That is not prophecy.
I can make a prophecy that within one century a great earthquake will strike say, Japan with an enormous loss of life. My chances of the prediction coming true are better than even money given the time frame.

sschlichter

why don't you make a prediction that a man will be beaten and bruised for the sins of others, buried in a rich man' tomb and yet will live. also include whom he will descend from and go back in history and promise that person that he will bless all people thru his descendant. perhaps an earthquake is not rare enough of an event to prove your point.