Eric H

Hello Emp-JohnIV,
Why do you single out Christians, I would say that statement applies to most of mankind

peace

Eric

Emp-JohnIV

I know, but it is most obvious in Christians. (Thats probaly because I have rarly met a non Christian, other then one buddist and a few hand fulls of pegans. Plus of course countless atheists, and none of then ever told me that I HAD to believe what they believe)

Opera Nut

This specifically applies to Xtians because they DO NOT mind their own business; one of their doctrines is to go out and spread the gospel. In their minds they are doing the right thing. In many peoples' minds, they are arrogant, pushy, self righteous, and obnoxious. There are a number of people I will never speak to again, including blood relatives, because of this.

Hundreds of years of forced conversions, witch hunts, tortures, the Inquisition, are evidence of this. And it is not just limited to Catholics. John Calvin invited Michael Servetus to Geneva for a debate. Michael Servetus was the first Unitarian (believer in one god) and first Universalist (believer in universal salvation for all).

John Calvin barbecued Michael Servetus over a fire of green sticks, so he would suffer as long as possible.

funinspace

I may be wrong, but I thought he was in cahoots with the RCC, in this instance, and set him up for their capture and murder???

Either way, I concure in the point. And yes it does apply to most of mankind. But most xians are exclusionists, and dream of horrible fates for believing in the wrong god, no god, or wrong version of god. Many also like to call all of humanity as depraved and no good, that we should grovel and some mysterious/intangible god's feet who doesn't even bother to reveal itself in the last 2000 years; Who's follower's are not changed in any obvious way that makes them act any different than the rest of humanity.

Emp-JohnIV

Thats why I talk to Christians, if the are devout enough to try converting you, they almost always have a literial enough beliefe that they will contradict themself.

iLoveKnowledge

Umm.......that does not sound like love to me, Christian or otherwise. that's similar to the kind of talk you can expect from someone who was raised in an abusive family and had the notion of "beating the hell out of someone=i love you so much" ingrained in them. It's not true, it's a sign of trouble. LIkewise when someone says Christian love can be expressed by bloodshed-they have to be deluded or somewhat sadistic; or else deeply indoctrinated.

i agree that in many cases, the opposite of what Christians say is true. Hypocrisy seems to be the height of obedience and "intelligence" for those people, and the more you practice it, the better.

i can't help but wonder if this is why fundies teach that mankind is inherently, without a doubt, sinful by nature. But then that begs the question of whether or not they stopped to think before deciding this (which they probably wouldn't). This is anohter reason i've chosen to leave; hypocrites exist in all religions, i'm sure, but ones like Christianity might as well give you a free pass. It doesn't make sense from a logical POV.

i think i remember reading that part...or maybe i heard it in church (how's THAT for a first reading?) either way, i see where you are going. Love and hate are opposites, and while they can exist applied to different things or people, there's only room for one when it comes to yourself.

Of course, you could argue that maybe he meant "love yourself, but there will always be things about yourself that you will hate; same with others." But that's a big maybe. (was that the spin you were talkign about?) Probably the worst part of it all is that there's no way we can ask him "this....is this what you fucking meant?! Clarify!"

ignorance isn't bliss in teh long run. matter of fact, i think Buddhism might be on to something with the belief that ignorance lies at the root of suffering, along with desire. I suppose in this case, the desire to rule the world would apply.

Fisher

I really understand what all of you guys are saying against theists and their need for conversion. Believe me, it really pisses me off when I get a knock at my door early Saturday morning, after a long night of cocktails. It sucks to wake up to a church-goer at your door with your hair sticking straight up and whiskey flowing out of your pores. I mean, can my soul not wait until Sunday to be saved or at least until Saturday afternoon?

What pisses me off even more is bigots -- atheist and theist. The simple solution is just to love each other for the individuals that we are. Love does not damn people to hell nor accuse people of intellectual inferiority for having faith in something they cannot see. Why can’t both sides of the equation just throw down their guards and embrace each other for their similarities and their differences?

iLoveKnowledge

This is jsut a guess, but i suppose they wouldn't even DREAM of doing that because it would be undermining what they see as the most important aspect of their religion: winning converts and "saving them from the fire of hell"

'Course, there's always the "i won't because if i do, i'm afraid i'll end up going to hell for it" option.

funinspace

Ah, never mind. Servetus managed to escape the first attempt via an Inquisition. It's amazing, Servetus thought Calvin was his friend and he trusted him. He was later caught by Calvin's minions in Geneva. Aparently, Calvin meerly wanted him simply hung for his heresies, but the rest wanted a bon fire and they won out.

Fisher

I am sorry, but I do not recall the most important aspect of Christianity to be "winning converts and saving them from the fires of hell."

Man, I am far too busy trying to save my own ass from the fires of hell to worry about yours.