Helo

Ok, right off the bat lets get something straight. Im not trying to be offensive or rattle anyone's cage, Im asking an honest question out of honest curiosity and I'd appreciate an honest answer. I dont mean to sound condescending, I have the utmost respect for other people's beliefs.

Ive always looked at the world with a certain ammount of wonder, in my eyes theres so many things in this world that I find it difficult to say "EVERYTHING has a scientific or rational explanation."

I just....I have a hard time understanding how certain people can look at the world and NOT believe that theres atleast some type of higher power or atleast some idea that we as people cant see or test for.

Crucifiction

I agree - but not in a way you'd want me to.

The universe itself is completely ordered via natural, logic means. The human mind, however, is as illogical as it is logical.

llanitedave

Believing in a higher power and being an atheist are not incompatible. The atheist simply makes no pretense at being able to define the higher power. I personally believe we're all ingredients in a vast work of art, the purpose of which is beauty for its own sake.

I make no claims about the identity, purposes, characteristics, or goals of the artist, or my particular role in the work. In fact, the genius of it all is that my role is left for me to determine. We are not only parts of this work, but participants in it.

That's not a statement of faith, however, it's an inductive conclusion based on observation. As such, it's not science, and it's not religion. It's just a personal opinion.

There's no creed, no mythology, no prophecy, no judgment, and no eternal punishment, reward, or life postulated here. But I know beauty when I see it.

sunspark

Science explains to us why or how things are, but I don't see how that conflicts with awe or wonderment.

For example, when you were a kid, did you ever "make a rainbow" (there are a few ways to do it)? Once I did it, it didn't "reduce" a "real" rainbow in my eyes. Indeed, it made me feel even more in awe of the "simple" and consistant principles that even I could use to create beauty. Life is filled with these kind of things.

Being skeptical of a dubious explanation doesn't make you cynical about life.

Noggin

Helo

My guess is that you are young. Okay then, I just checked your profile, and I was right. I commend you for your participation in a forum like this. Way to go.

The more you read and interact and experience life, the more you will notice the inconsistancies. Those items that basically "gel" come into focus too. Many of these can only be seen with the often painful or sweet life lessons learned. They are subtle at first, but a culmination ensues that eventually points the astute observer in a critically questioning direction. The more of these items you see, the more stark the contrasts become. Until you reach that crossroad where you declare relative certainty, question everything around you, trust no one thing but what you can personally verify. Even then be guarded.

There are many who would want to own what you think. And, once they have the deed to your thoughts, you become their puppet. Good for them, very bad for you.

Talk to the oldest, wisest theist in the room. Then talk to the oldest wisest atheist in the room. Do this a few dozens times over the next few years and weigh what you see in the balance scales. This information will serve you well as you formulate your own recipe for living life.

Again, I am just tickled to see an 18 year old weighing in on existential items.

Sermon over

Noggin

LoneWolf

I am offended and you have rattled my cage.

Back when I was a Christian I thought the same way. The universe is so huge and amazing that I was so in awe of it that God was the only way I could explain it.

Now I am an atheist and I am even MORE in awe of it! But just because the universe engenders an emotional response in me is no reason to believe there is some supernatural explanation behind it all. We are tiny organisms living on a tiny speck of rock flying through a universe of unimaginable size. Of course we are going to be in awe of it.

Our capacity to ask questions far outweighs our current capacity to ANSWER those questions. Each passing year we answer more and more of those questions through scientific endeavors. It reeks of intellectual laziness to pencil in "God did it" for the answer to the questions we still haven't answered. It makes more sense to pencil in "I don't know yet" and then strive to find the answers.

I like solving puzzles, and to me the universe is the greatest puzzle there is.

Crucifiction

Seventeen here. :wave:

Zhivago

I can hardly improve on what has been posted in this thread thusfar. But my slant is this: at 18 years old, you likely relate to things on a more visceral level. You see or experience something and can't help but wonder at it, the beauty of a thing or its grandeur. As someone almost 30 years older, I'm still clinging to the last vestiges of that very perspective, but admittedly, it is hard. I nonetheless envy you for your age and your outlook.
Time changes everyone and everything, however. Your outlook will be tempered by experience and perspective; the shine will come off the apple, to an extent. This does NOT mean that you have to be cynical or jaded, as has been pointed out. You will find that some things retain their wondrous qualities, while other things become clearer for what they are. Again, it's perspective. Educate yourself, ask questions, and listen. As Walt Whitman said, "Re-examine all that you have learned at school, in church, or in books, and dismiss what is insulting to your soul." What is near and dear to me may be quite different to you, but that's what's great about the whole thing, our uniqueness. You may come to find that what is wondrous might well be explained scientifically or logically. Or maybe you'll be the one to reveal that everyone professing their lack of faith or belief here will indeed be eternally damned . In any case, enjoy the time that's given you and inject whatever meaning into it that you can. And let me know about the damnation thing if you find out, will ya?!

Zhivago

Same to you, too. No more rants from me. I'm tired.

LoneWolf

Llanitedave, only going off this post that you made you don't strike me as an atheist. Talking about a "higher power" and an "artist" seems antithetical to atheism. To me it sounds more like deism. I was a deist until very recently and my world view was almost identical to what you just described. But like I said, I am only going off this one post you made.