mountainman

F.A.

One need only refer to the recent summary of the MJ position published as follows ...


Ten beautiful lies about Jesus which had not yet been INVENTED

See David Fitzgerald (San Francisco): Ten beautiful lies about Jesus.

“Fitzgerald’s is possibly the best ‘capsule summary’ of the mythicist case I’ve ever encountered …within an interesting and accessible approach.”
—Earl Doherty

There is a clean sweep of evidence from the field of the 1st century.
This essay covers this clean sweep of evidence quite comprehensively.

If MJ's could time travel to ancient Palestine 1-90AD they would observe and discover that the fabrications of the new testament story were not yet discernible anywhere - no matter where they looked and looked and looked. Nobody had heard of it, and certainly as the essay clearly demonstrates --- nobody had made any independent reports about the Historical Jesus (HJ), or the New Testament (NT) or indeed the very illusive and perhaps utterly transcendental "Tribe of Christians".

Conclusion of Essay ...

aa5874

The writing with the name Eusebius is propagating that there was a God who became man during the days of Herod but this is vastly different to or diametrically opposed to the view of HJers.

HJers are contending that there was a MAN who was deified.

The writer using the name Eusebius was actually propagating a mythological entity as historical. Church History promoted the FICTIONAL history of the GOD/MAN or FMHJ.

Eusebius may be the origin of the three-in-one, the FICTIONAL, MYTHICAL, HISTORICAL Jesus (FMHJ)





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spamandham

There's no way of knowing, but my best guess is:

- prior to 70CE you would observe messianic Judaism in a fervor. This was brought about by a combination of 3 important factors:

a. The first century was generally seen as the start of the new astrological age of Pisces. This brought with it all kinds of expectations of godly influence in the world, particularly numerous end-of-the world type beliefs. We saw the same sort of silliness as we approached 2000, and it's still going on in regard to the new age of Aquarius (which is currently driven by the Mayan 2012 definition).

b. Jews expected the messiah to arrive right at the time Jesus is purported to have arrived due to Daniel's prediction (which was probably based on estimates of the beginning of the new age).

c. Jewish culture was under attack by Greek influence

This messianic fervor resulted in Jewish uprisings and the fall of the temple in 70 CE.

- You would also have observed several ascetic Jewish cults, such as the Nazarenes, influenced by western ideas and already rejecting the sophomoric Jewish theology of old....forming new ideas to rationalize Jewish scriptures with their more evolved beliefs. Part of that rationalization included a messiah with no political aspirations - one that is spiritual rather than human. This spiritual savior was referred to as 'YHWH's anointed salvation".

- Once the temple fell, you would observe the rapid rise of these new branches of Greek influenced Jews more than happy to ditch the law entirely and make new theology out of the destruction of the temple. For several more decades, they would attempt to remain part of the Jewish culture, but drifting apart. This is now the turn of the 2nd century, and all kinds of new sects are springing up in response to failure of the Jewish wars. The fall of the temple was a *big deal*. It's absurd to the extreme to claim that no new Jewish theology arose from it.

- Around 130, you would watch in fascination and horror as the defeated Jews tried hopelessly again to defeat Rome under Bar Kochba. The hardliners now viewed the hellenized sects as part of the problem and persecuted them given the chance. This caused a chasm and resulted in the birth of what we know as Christianity. After Jerusalem was razed by Hadrian, the first gospel as we know it was penned, as an origin story for this new religious movement that otherwise had no idea how it had sprung up, and had been sufficiently polarized to no longer consider itself Jewish. They needed a story that explained why the Jews had been rejected in favor of them, and so they constructed one, setting it exactly a symbolic 40 years prior to the fall of the temple, and right around the time Daniel had predicted the messiah would appear. Tada! Instant messiah. Just add water for walking on.

In regard to Josephus, the TF is a later rework. The reference to James, brother of Jesus called Christ, might be genuine, or it might not. I don't view any of this as hinging on that single point, as there is no hypothesis prima facie consistent with all the evidence anyway, so the best we can do is find the most consistent proposition.

DCHindley

Ahh, I have materialized in Bethlehem, Judea, in 3 CE. Smottovat about, I viddy it is just a merzky village. Everyone knows ort is related to about a half dozen families with like a Joseph, Mary or kid eemyaed Jesus.

Goolying to Jerusalem, I realize, contrary to all sources surviving to modern times, that Judea is full of Hellenized Yahoodies, participating in the baths, amphitheater and gymnasium. Dobby luck finding anything out here. Jesus would be a needle in a haystack.

So I gooly to Nazareth in Galilee, which is filled with like hillbillies who govoreet with like a twangty accent. I ask for Joseph and Mary, but this chelloveck shoots back "Be specific, moodge! There are twenty Josephs in town, and none of them let their zheenas out in order for me to learn their names."

So I gulliver out to Capernaum on the shore of Lake Tiberias. It's like I am back in Jerusalem, so I shvat in a pantomime performance at the amphitheater, then sloosh to a raggedy Cynic philosopher making fun of chellovecks in the Market and masturbating as devotchkas gooly by.

Soon I ookadeet town and gooly to Antioch in Syria. Veshches are much more cosmopolitan there. There everyone who is somebody is into "new age" folk religion. I viddy a building marked "Church of Dionysus" and check out some tracts in a box by the entrance. Hmmm. It says that the church was founded by Zeus when he peeted too much Haoma and pissed out wine, some of it falling into the glass of Dionysus. Dionysus became inspired by the spirit and went off to have himself inmpaled by barbarians as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind.

Now it makes perfect sense! I ookadeet before the plate is passed, run back to Bethlehem, where I hop into my raz machine hidden under a haystack in BF Egypt, and dial in 2010 as skorry as possible. Shaken, I gulliver for the Kavora moloko bar and have me a synthamesc, find me a ptitsa and have the old in-out in-out. Home!!

DCH

mountainman

Eusebius is certainly the origin of the "POLITICAL Jesus". One need only read Eusebius' books entitled

THE TREATISE OF EUSEBIUS, THE SON OF PAMPHILUS,
AGAINST THE LIFE OF APOLLONIUS OF TYANA
WRITTEN BY PHILOSTRATUS,
OCCASIONED BY THE PARALLEL
DRAWN BY HIEROCLES
BETWEEN HIM AND CHRIST.

which translated by F.C. Conybeare (1912) commences ...

So then, my dear friend, you find worthy of no little admiration the parallel which, embellished with many marvels, this author has drawn between the man of Tyana arid our own Saviour and teacher.

Obviously, at this stage in the history of the nation of christians, it was expedient to point out the political opposition players.

arnoldo

I have the following autographed book,Behold the Man (or via: amazon.co.uk) in which the time traveler "becomes" Jesus. Anyway, if certain MJ'ers could travel to Israel 1-90 AD, they wouldn't see anything since Christianity began in the second, not the first century.

Johnny Skeptic

Of course, but not for your reasons. Since Jesus did not perform any miracles, it would have been very difficult for Christians to get away with claiming that he did, especially, as the texts claim, "throughout all Galilee," and "throughout all Syria." If Jesus performed many miracles, the most logical time for Christianity to grow quickly would have been when thousands of eyewitnesses were still alive to confirm claims that Jesus performed miracles.

What purpose could Jesus have had for performing many miracles?

mountainman

There was a miracle performance competition going on in the minds of the authors of the new testament between Jesus and Apollonius of Tyana. In their minds, Jesus was to be the official winner.

spamandham

Just Apollonius?

Jesus heals the blind, the lame, etc...look, he's Asclepius incarnate!

Jesus not only turns water into wine, but his very blood is wine. Look, he's Dionysus incarnate!

Jesus raises the dead. Look, he's Horus incarnate!

Jesus feeds the multitudes. Look, he's Rhea incarmate!

Jesus controls the water. Look, he's Poseidon incarnate!

Jesus causes a bountiful catch of 153 fish. Hint hint, wink wink you Pythagoreans.

I haven't come to bring peace but war! Look, he's Mars!

Jesus is also the father. Look, he's Zeus!


Jesus is *every* major deity in the Hellenistic world.

aa5874

And he was equal to the God of the Jews and was the Creator of heaven and earth.