reddish

Pmarra, first: could you refrain from the excessive use of the SIZE specifier. It's generally frowned upon - thank you.


Well, of course it is an arbitrary mapping unless you can show me some logic behind it. But I will agree that you use this because it is old and at least you didn't get to pick it yourself.

ok

What is it, then?

Would you have considered 3.142 precise enough?
Would you have considered 3.14 precise enough?
Would you have considered 3 precise enough?

Furthermore, you haven't addressed the following sources of 'arbitrariness' in your work:

- method of calculation (this is the big one)
- the criterion for target selection - although I'd agree that pi and e are pretty special.

Further, you haven't addressed my question about whether this was the first thing you tried. How many things did you try that yielded nothing of any interest?

Finally, your calculation about the odds for this are quite meaningless. What you need to do in order to show if the Pi answer is very special is run your algorithm over a large volume of text of old Hebrew, and look at the distribution of values for different sentences.

If I run your algorithm over regular English sentences, using the A->1, B->2,..., Z->26 mapping, I get enormous values. The Hebrew mapping could just yield values close to three for many many ordinary sentences in old Hebrew. If this were the case (I don't know), then the 3.14 and 2.718 results become much less of a surprise. So we need information about the distribution of the result of your algorithm over a sample set of many Hebrew sentences to assess if the fact that something close to Pi comes out is at all surprising.

SophistiCat

Do the math, genius.

B+E+C, E+C+K, C+K+E are all triangular numbers. Their sum is also a triangular number.

SophistiCat

This isn't even true. There are a number of ways to do Hebrew numerology. Four different ways are shown here, but there are more still.

OK, so do you acknowledge my groundbreaking discoveries citied above? If not, explain why not. (Oh and simply saying "no, it ain't" won't do.)

Pmarra

ok

to analyze sentences in English we can use these correspondences from the letters to the values
naturally if we use the column from 1 to 26 we don't use the column from 1 to 800 or vice versa



a 1 1
b 2 2
c 3 3
d 4 4
e 5 5
f 6 6
g 7 7
h 8 8
i 9 9
j 10 10
k 11 20
l 12 30
m 13 40
n 14 50
o 15 60
p 16 70
q 17 80
r 18 90
s 19 100
t 20 200
u 21 300
v 22 400
w 23 500
x 24 600
y 25 700
z 26 800

the value of Pi is “precise� if it is at least of 4 figures (3.141)

Pmarra

I sincerely hope that after this correction you give a greater importance to my discoveries

thank you


But, surprises do not end here, in that, the name Elohim has another characteristic that clearly distinguishes It from the other 41 triangular names:
in fact, if we add up Its three triangular numbers: 36 + 45 + 55, we get the
number 136, which is the 16th triangular number:
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 + 11 + 12 + 13 + 14 + 15 + 16 = 136

The fact that the sum

of three

consecutive

triangular numbers

is in turn a triangular number, is extremely rare, and, therefore, much more unlikely than the previous case.

B+E+C, 2+5+3=10
E+C+K, 5+3+20=28
C+K+E 3+20+5=28

10+28+28=66

SophistiCat

Well, since you haven't really given us any good reasons for choosing Pi over any other number, and since your analysis of "improbability", such as it is, would apply just as well to any other number, I would like to answer your challenge above.

"Everyone has the right to life liberty and security of person"

The ratio calculated as described in your article (but using Latin letter codes) approximately equals

2.5475e+047

Using your own "analysis", it can be shown that it is extremely unlikely to obtain this particular number from any English sentence.

SophistiCat

It is "extremely rare" because the set of the qualifying triangular numbers is small, and only a few (about 3, in the case of the Hebrew alphabet) satisfy your arbitrary criterion.

I could similarly come up with a "rare" arbitrary criterion for some other word, which you would be unable to match just about anywhere else.

66 is a triangular number. For your reference, here is a list of the first 15 triangular numbers:

1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45 55 66 78 91 105 120

Or do you now insist that the component triangular numbers must be consecutive? Shifting goalposts?

reddish

I read again your writeup on your method, this time slightly better, and I now see that the number you get by calculating the product-of-letters divided by the product-of-words is actually not Pi itself, but it has to be DIVIDED BY 2.5*10^16 to get close.

You're off by 16 orders of magnitude !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolling: :rolling:

Now this level of arbitrariness surely gives me some leeway, too!

Using the "everyone has the right to life...." example, the 'hebrew-like' table, and a fudge factor of 8.10884125904e46 (Pray tell: why would that be any more arbitrary than yours?) I get:


3.14159265359

which is accurate up to, and including, the last digit.

So, I now fully expect you to start praying three times a day in the general direction of the United Nations General Assembly building, or to concede that you've been peddling UTTER NONSENSE.

:wave:

reddish

Nonsense. As I pointed out here, this statement is incorrect.

You should really stop telling things that you know are not true. There's a word for that, and it isn't pretty.

SophistiCat

Make that 3.142 (with proper rounding).

How about if we analyse verses of Milton's "Paradise Lost"?

Here are some choice results. In keeping with the methodology employed by the OP, the results give a "precise" estimate of Pi when mulitplied by a rational number. The results are accurate up to the digit shown:

(Book2, verse 33) Precedence, none, whose portion is so small
Result * 10^-32 * 5/8 ~ 3.1416
(Book2, verse 360) In his own strength, this place may lye expos'd
Result * 10^-31 * 1/3 ~ 3.142
(Book3, verse 642) Of many a colourd plume sprinkl'd with Gold,
Result * 10^-32 * 7/9 ~ 3.142
(Book3, verse 663) All these his wondrous works, but chiefly Man,
Result * 10^-34 * 1/2 ~ 3.1416
(Book4, verse 393) So spake the Fiend, and with necessitie,
Result * 10^-23 * 3/8 ~ 3.142
(Book4, verse 788) ITHURIEL and ZEPHON, with wingd speed
Result * 10^-27 * 3/8 ~ 3.1416
(Book5, verse 371) Whom thus the Angelic Vertue answerd milde.
Result * 10^-32 * 5/8 ~ 3.1416
(Book6, verse 195) His massie Spear upstaid; as if on Earth
Result * 10^-23 * 6/5 ~ 3.1416
(Book7, verse 329) Seemd like to Heav'n, a seat where Gods might dwell,
Result * 10^-27 * 7/5 ~ 3.1416
(Book8, verse 389) In gate surpass'd and Goddess-like deport,
Result * 10^-27 * 7/9 ~ 3.142
(Book9, verse 17) Up into Heav'n from Paradise in hast
Result * 10^-20 * 4/5 ~ 3.1416
(Book9, verse 31) And easily approv'd; when the most High
Result * 10^-24 * 1/2 ~ 3.142
(Book9, verse 937) She ended weeping, and her lowlie plight,
Result * 10^-24 * 4/9 ~ 3.142
(Book10, verse 1285) Not by destroying SATAN, but his works
Result * 10^-30 * 5/7 ~ 3.142
(Book10, verse 1479) Let us descend now therefore from this top
Result * 10^-31 * 2/5 ~ 3.1416

That's 15 matches in a single work.

What did I win?