Codec

Well Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. He's the only other one I know of that had a similar dramatic ascension. I think he also made use of a rocket power chariot though, or at least firey horses.

EarlOfLade

Maybe he had eaten too much refried beans?

jakejonesiv

Whatever the origin of the tale, the spectacle of Jesus wafting into heaven while the disciples stood by gawking at him, it is not historical. Acts 2:9-10.

Another favorite, the dead saints rise from their graves and parade about Jesusalem. Matt. 27:52-53. You have to have some nerve to argue that a book packed with such unmitigated nonsense has any claim to historical veracity.

Jake Jones IV

JEST2ASK

2-Kings 2 : 11 (NKJV) Then it happened as they continued on and talked , that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire , and separated the two of them , and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven

I also believe it is reported that Enoch was carried away into heaven ... can not locate the source right now.

And not to forget the mysterious claims made in (the N.T. book of ) Hebrews regarding Melchizedak.


I fail to understand why so many take these stories as literial history :huh:

jakejonesiv

Hi Codec!

Wow, you have hit on a key mythical connection. Both Elijah and Jesus hopped a ride in the sun's chariot! (And JEST2ASK is right, none of this is literal history).

According to Mark 15:33 darkness was over the whole land from the sixth to the ninth hour. This could mean nothing other than the sun disappeared.

And immediately with the departure of the sun, Jesus allegedly cries out some unintelligable words which were apparently misunderstood.
Who did Jesus allegedly call out to from the cross?

According to Mark 15:34, he calls for God. We would normaly expect to find Theos. But instead the text jarringly reverts to Aramaic. Eloi Eloi lema sabchthani. Even Matthew finds that unacceptable,and changes it to pidgin Hebrew/Aramaic; Eli Eli lema sabachthani.
Now some say Jesus was refering to Psalm 22:1, but not the Septuagint!
Something strange is going on here.

Some of those standing right there, according to Mark 15:35, had an entirely different opinion of what Jesus said. According to the tale, they thought Jesus was calling for Elias. Elias in Greek is the name of the OT prophet Elijah, it is very similar to the sun (Elios).

Thus, the sun disappears, and Jesus *immediately* cries out, "Sun! Sun! Why have you forsaken me?" Or "Elios, Elios, Why have you forsaken me?"

On "Easter" morning, what had risen? The sun (anateilantos Mark 16:2) or Jesus (hgerqh Mark 16:6) or both? Yes, they both rise together! In GMark, there is no resurrection without ascention.

What is Elijah most famous for? Elias has calling down fire from heaven as his "signature move." 1 Kings 18:38; 2 Kings 1:10, 12, 14;
There is an obvious link in riding in the sun god's chariot; Rising into heaven in a chariot of fire, and horses drawn by fire! 2 Kings 2:11. Anyone would recognize this as a sun god motif.

(The name Elias may be derived from the Greek Helios/Elios, but I can't prove it.)

At least some in ancient Israel observed the Zodiac and worship the sun god.
This is illustrated by 2 Kings 23:11.
"11And he took away the horses that the kings of Judah
had given to the sun, at the entering in of the house
of the LORD, by the chamber of Nathanmelech the
chamberlain, which was in the suburbs, and burned the
chariots of the sun with fire."

Now we can understand the back story mythology of Mark 16. The sun rises and the Son rises at precisely the same time. Jesus is hopping a ride in the sun god’s fiery chariot just like Elijah. (and achronologically for our discussion here, Mithras). :rolling:

In the Mithraic bas-relief from Heddernheim Germany, we see Mithras meet "the Sun (Helios, Sol) who kneels before him; they shake hands in agreement and ride off together in the chariot of the Sun."
_The Ancient Mysteries_, edited by Marvin W. Meyer, page 201.

Jake Jones IV

Cheerful Charlie

Did he or didn't he ascend?

Mark says he did from a room in Jerusalem after being seen by very few.
Mary Magdalene, two unnamed duisciples, and the 11 apostles.
Contra 1 Corinthians where Paul claims he was seen by 500.
Acts says he was in Jerusalem and told his apostles not to leave there.
He ascends to heaven from Jerusalem.
Luke says no, he ascends from Bethany.
But Matthew says he was never in Jerusalem except to tell the women at the tomb
to tell his apostles to meet him in Galilee. Contra Acts and Mark.
In Matthew, there is no mention of ascension to heaven.
In John, he meets his apostles secretly in Jerusalem. They go to Galilee, he joins
them there. No ascention and John 21 assumes he did not ascend to heaven
and went on to many other adventures, so many, all the books in the world cannot
contain them. Most odd.

As usual, all he bible does is sow confusion and obvious nonsense.

After his resurrection if any, he disappears from history.
if we are to believe John, he went adventuring in the word for quite some time.

Where? India, Tibet? Japan (his grave is alledgedly there)?

I may have to start at John 21 and write a silly best selling book.

15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, "Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, "Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, "Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, "Feed my sheep. 18 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. 19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, "Follow me. 20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? 21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22 Jesus saith unto him, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. 23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? 24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.


Cheerful Charlie

Forrest Knight

I still don't understand how anyone in this day and age could believe such a childish story.

Chili

Well, you know, Galilee exists between the sixth and the ninth hour which came to an end when Jesus was crucified. The disappearance of the sun means that the light of common day is gone without a mind to translate these vibrations into light -- which left Magdalene stranded in the dark except of the "other Mary" who had come down from heaven to be her light (they had become friends as denoted in the Herod-Pilate relationship). Because Mark describes the bare bone metaphysics of the event that John needed to built his new religion on. So yes, the sun had forsaken Jesus. Yes, Mark was written to empty the event from Judaism, add the full load of metaphysics in Luke and walk away with it in John while we insist that they are synoptic. . . . and it was on Easter Sunday that evening did not follow the day and thus morning did not come on the second day wherefore Easter is celebrated for two days in Catholicism. This would be the seventh day in Gen.2 that makes us whole.

You may want to compare this with Christmas when the sun never rose and therefore is also celebrated for 2 days but in the absense of light (eg. no presents on Christmas day is a tradition in Catholicism).

Chili

In case you wonder about the Herod-Pilate connection, they are in charge of the offspring between the greater serpent of the TOL and the lesser serpent of the TOK. This would be how Joseph was not free and kind of like torn between two women. Lucky man, to have a vivid Eve is all I can say who was therefore also responsible for the slaughter of the innocent by Herod.

IonMic

Correct, No HUMAN person could ascend to heaven without space suits etc but Jesus was not human at this point. He was a resurrected and translated entity.