Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GakuseiDon · 02-10-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordy

Quote:

Rational Response Squad

IIRC and apology if I have mixed them with another name? Didn't the Rational Response Squad have a big row some year ago and almost everybody got upset over who they treated folks they dealt with? Am I wrong?

In brief: Members of the RRS allegedly accused Richard Dawkins of having an affair. This caused the Richard Dawkins Foundation to break off any sort of association with the RRS, and resulted in a tsunami of negative reaction from atheist boards generally. (Tom Verenna was not involved in this AFAIK)

thedistillers · 02-10-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Tom is currently acting Assistant Director of the Jesus Project, which is good news for him, and possibly not quite as good news for the Jesus Project.

Oh dear. The Jesus Project is now officially a joke.

Do they even realize Verenna is Rook Hawkins? If so, why is he the assistant director? If not, how can they hope to know who the real Jesus was, if they can't figure out with a simple google search who Verenna is?

GakuseiDon · 02-10-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedistillers

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Tom is currently acting Assistant Director of the Jesus Project, which is good news for him, and possibly not quite as good news for the Jesus Project.

Oh dear. The Jesus Project is now officially a joke.

Do they even realize Verenna is Rook Hawkins? If so, why is he the assistant director? If not, how can they hope to know who the real Jesus was, if they can't figure out with a simple google search who Verenna is?

It MAY not turn out that bad. I'm not sure what his duties as "Assistant Director of the Jesus Project" entails, but there is no reason he can't make a contribution there. But there is the problem of his dreadful reputation, and his inability to interact constructively with others.

If he can fix the later, then the former will take care of itself. Given his responses to April, however, it doesn't look good. And the Jesus Project will suffer as a result.

Toto · 02-11-2009, 10:12 AM

I think that the purpose of the Jesus Project was to make some progress on these well known arguments that seem to form the basis of an endless loop.

(I will entertain proposals for a split if anyone thinks that will help.)

Ishmael · 02-11-2009, 10:14 AM

Don't forget that Rook Hawkins (aka Tom Verenna) is a TJP fellow.

Toto · 02-11-2009, 10:18 AM

Don't forget to read the thread before you post. Rook Hawkins is hardly typical.

Ishmael · 02-11-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Don't forget to read the thread before you post. Rook Hawkins is hardly typical.

doesn't matter whether he is "typical" or not, he is a fellow and that's why TJP fails as an activist endeavor

but sorry about not reading the entire thread before posting

Ben C Smith · 02-11-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I think that the purpose of the Jesus Project was to make some progress on these well known arguments that seem to form the basis of an endless loop.

I wish them well. I hope they succeed, one way or another.

Historicists and mythicists both seem to pull the same set of tricks sometimes. Some historicists weed out whatever came from the OT and whatever came from another gospel, then call the rest oral tradition. Some mythicists weed out whatever came from the OT and whatever came from another gospel, then call the rest invention. A better methodology would certainly come in handy.

Quote:

(I will entertain proposals for a split if anyone thinks that will help.)

Everything that came at post #138 or thereafter — except for the posts by wordy, GDon, thedistillers, and DCH — might well deserve its own thread.

Ben.

IGExpandingPanda · 02-11-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Don't forget to read the thread before you post. Rook Hawkins is hardly typical.

Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna) is listed as a fellow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJP Tom

Thomas Verenna, currently acting Assistant Director of the Jesus Project, is co-editing a collection of essays with Thomas L. Thompson to be published through the Copenhagen International Seminar focusing on the issue of the historicity of the figure of Jesus. Thomas will also be co-editing a collection of essays with Robert M. Price on Christian Origins.

http://www.jesus-project.com/fellows/verenna.htm

It's sort of interesting the fact that he was caught red handed trying to pretend one of the books he was writing was accepted for the Copenhagen Seminar, as well trying to justify himself as saying that Robert Price, Richard Carrier, and Eric Schumacher were going to peer review his book. It may be these people have since given him projects to work on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJP

Unlike the Seminar, the Project members will not vote with marbles, and we will not expand membership indefinitely: the Project will be limited to fifty scholars with credentials in biblical studies as well as in the crucial cognate disciplines of ancient history, mythography, archaeology, classical studies, anthropology, and social history.

http://www.jesus-project.com/intro.htm

Rook (Tom) has no credentials in biblical studies, ancient history, or any of the other disciplines required. He tends to fudge the truth on various issues like knowing Koine Greek.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica....itty_greek.JPG

This is from his presentation to New York City Atheists
Here is the retake of the presentation
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...entation&hl=en

And this is one of their research fellows?

And to make things worse, it looks like April DeConick decided to no longer support TJP.

http://forbiddengospels.blogspot.com...s-project.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by April DeConick

After reflecting for two years since I was initially contacted about participating in The Jesus Project, and recently determining the actual goal of TJP which had always been vague to me, I have decided to step aside.

First, the goal to prove Jesus' existence or not is methodologically a black hole from my perspective.

Second, another quest for what we can know about Jesus will turn up nothing new, because each thing that will be identified will be easily deconstructed by the members of the group. When this happens, I can imagine that the minimal-to-nothing "evidence" could be framed as "proof" for Jesus' non-existence. The media will have a heyday - "now scholars prove that Jesus didn't exist" or "scholars say that we can know nothing about Jesus".

This line of reasoning became very evident to me when Tom Verenna quoted a statement of mine published on my blog (in which I stated that the historical Jesus we reconstruct only exists in our imaginations) as somehow aligning with his myther position, as giving validity to it. This is simply false. Because I recognize that my colleagues in the Jesus Seminar have constructed the historical Jesus from their imaginative interpretation of the evidence available, has no bearing on whether or not Jesus actually existed...

Look, having self inflated pretenders on their committee, as a research fellow, affects their credibility.

Ishmael · 02-11-2009, 11:29 AM

what's amazing to me is that the forefront scholars like Robert M. Price (of the Jesus Seminar) seem to have so little purchase on their Jesus was myth position they can't find one of their own, educated, graduate students to do what Rook is apparently doing with no training, no published work, and clearly no ability, these people have made themselves a joke out of the gate

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-11-2009, 10:12 AM	#144
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I think that the purpose of the Jesus Project was to make some progress on these well known arguments that seem to form the basis of an endless loop. (I will entertain proposals for a split if anyone thinks that will help.)

02-11-2009, 10:14 AM	#145
Ishmael Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 591	Don't forget that Rook Hawkins (aka Tom Verenna) is a TJP fellow.

02-11-2009, 10:18 AM	#146
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Don't forget to read the thread before you post. Rook Hawkins is hardly typical.

02-11-2009, 11:29 AM	#150
Ishmael Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 591	what's amazing to me is that the forefront scholars like Robert M. Price (of the Jesus Seminar) seem to have so little purchase on their Jesus was myth position they can't find one of their own, educated, graduate students to do what Rook is apparently doing with no training, no published work, and clearly no ability, these people have made themselves a joke out of the gate

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.