FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-06-2009, 02:10 PM   #81
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martian Astronomer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Indeed View Post

That's just a number I threw out to mean "after the flood". Uniformatiranists don't take the world wide flood into account when adjusting their measuring meters.
Free Indeed, you just made a comment disparaging "uniformitarianism" with respect to "The Flood." We can start a new thread about this if you want, but your comment just begs for me to ask this question.

As I hope you're aware, carbon dating is not the only means for determining the age of an object. (Moreover, for many types of object it's not even the right technique.) There are at least a dozen different radiometric dating methods, out there, and there are many more techniques for determining the age of specific structures, Dendrochronology (tree rings) and lake varves are just a few.

All of the methods that I've mentioned have been used to give dates that are much older than 6000 years. You can claim that these methods are invalid due to "the Flood," but you're left with a big problem: The curves agree.

Below is a graph from a paper called Radiocarbon calibration curve spanning 0 to 50,000 years BP based
on paired 230Th/ 234U/ 238U and 14C dates on pristine corals


Citation: R.G. Fairbanks et al, Quaternary Science Reviews 24 (2005) 1781–1796

N/A

In the paper, the dates obtained from several different dating methods are compared, including tree rings, lake sedimentation layers, Carbon-14, and U/Th. And, what do you know, different dating methods, carried out by different individuals, all agree pretty closely. Does this constitute evidence for uniformitarianism? If not, then why do the calibration curves agree?

The article won't let me in, I assume because I am a creationist. However the subject matter is interesting so I will try to find it somewhere else if possible. I don't want to just come off with a quick answer, although I have one in mind, without further evidentiary discovery.
Free Indeed is offline  
Old 04-06-2009, 02:11 PM   #82
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by show_no_mercy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Indeed View Post


My information is 300 to 360 laminae formed in 160 years in Lake Walensee, Switzerland. We can't always assume that the rate of deposition that we see today has been the same for the past.
The rate of deposition would only matter if there were no seasons. The earth has always had a tilt of 23.5 degrees so there were always seasons. If there were no seasons then there would be no cyclical differences in deposits throughout the year.

Unless you add to your magic box of "the flood" that the earth only gained its tilt after the flood.

Maybe you can point me to the pertanent piece in the article because obviously I missed the point.
Free Indeed is offline  
Old 04-06-2009, 02:30 PM   #83
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: A pale blue oblate spheroid.
Posts: 20,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Indeed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnotspecial View Post
The story of the tower of babel is even more nonsensical than the flood story. So why are we even talking about it?

It's our history.
No, it's our history according to the Bible.
GenesisNemesis is offline  
Old 04-06-2009, 03:28 PM   #84
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,796
Default

Message to Free Indeed. Do you intend to reply to some unanswered posts in the new thread that I recently started at http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=265598 at the Evolution/Creation Forum?

Are you an inerrantist? If so, will you please start a new thread on inerrancy at this forum and state whatever evidence you have that the Bible is inerrant?
Johnny Skeptic is offline  
Old 04-06-2009, 04:19 PM   #85
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,851
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Mind Trick View Post
Look up the time line for the Clovis culture in America and you'll see that they existed from before the *fludd* too. Hell, even before the creation for that matter.
That's simply because secular scientists are using flawed science based upon erroneous assumptions that come to the false conclusion that Native Americans have been in the Americas since before the date of creation.

Obviously.
Archimedes is offline  
Old 04-06-2009, 04:50 PM   #86
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: land of the home, free of the brave
Posts: 9,729
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martian Astronomer View Post

Seriously.

Man, to think that I was always taught that the reason that multiple cultures built pyramids had to do with the fact that they used relatively soft, heavy building materials that would crack under their own weight if the structure didn't have a wide base. Boy was I misled...
Well, perhaps your knowledge of structural mechanics relied too greatly on engineering textbooks and too little on Biblical references. I'm sure this incident has taught you a valuable lesson to use in the future.

:rolling:
credoconsolans is offline  
Old 04-07-2009, 02:33 AM   #87
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Indianaplolis
Posts: 4,998
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Mind Trick View Post
Look up the time line for the Clovis culture in America and you'll see that they existed from before the *fludd* too. Hell, even before the creation for that matter.
That's simply because secular scientists are using flawed science based upon erroneous assumptions that come to the false conclusion that Native Americans have been in the Americas since before the date of creation.

Obviously.
I guess you just can win with YECs.
Jedi Mind Trick is offline  
Old 04-07-2009, 07:04 AM   #88
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Bernardino, Calif.
Posts: 5,435
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Indeed View Post
It makes sense that people from Babel took the tower design ideas to their new lands.
Where did the people of Babel get the idea? Who gave it to them?
Doug Shaver is offline  
Old 04-07-2009, 07:18 AM   #89
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pittsfield, Mass
Posts: 24,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Shaver View Post
Where did the people of Babel get the idea? Who gave it to them?
Well, it couldn't have been from God. He'd have known they were going to piss him off with it.
Keith&Co. is offline  
Old 04-07-2009, 07:24 AM   #90
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern U.S.
Posts: 780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Shaver View Post
Where did the people of Babel get the idea? Who gave it to them?
Well, it couldn't have been from God. He'd have known they were going to piss him off with it.
Since when has knowledge that people are going to piss him off later ever stopped God from giving something to humans? See "Free Will" and "Sex Drive" for reference.
Martian Astronomer is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:31 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.