Jenny911

[QUOTE=Jenny911;5073162]A question...

Prophecy, which is predicting future events before they happen, is found through out the Bible. Many of the prophecies predicted have already come to pass, in these prophecies there could be no room of being humanly contrived, the reports of their fulfillment are recorded in history...

Of the truth such prophecies can be attributed to non other than Divine origin...

Here's a vid I came across on Youtube that lists a few of these prophecies:

http://www.proofdirectory.com/videoindex.htm

What do you think?




The above link was changed for some reason, here's the correction: http://www.proofdirectory.com/videoindex.htm

Jack the Bodiless

Jenny: there are no verifiably-fulfilled prophecies in the Bible.

If you still want to argue otherwise: you need to present one. Don't expect us to sit through a video (especially as some of us aren't posting from computers that can run videos: also, it's a waste of our time, we'll go to church if we want to watch a sermon). If there's a prophecy somewhere in the Bible, YOU need to provide chapter and verse.

Some pointers:

The Book of Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC, and therefore didn't "prophesy" anything before that time (it refers to the events of the Maccabean Rebellion, and a lot of wishful-thinking is needed in applying it to Jesus).

Similarly, various books of the OT were written, edited or compiled at around the time of the Babylonian Exile and its aftermath (e.g. Deuteronomy) and contain after-the-event "prophecies". Quite a few claimed prophecies of the "re-emergence of Israel" date from this time, and are mis-applied to the 20th century when they actually applied 2500 years earlier: beware of such claims based on Isaiah or Jeremiah in particular.

Also, sometimes the NT authors more-or-less admit that Jesus did certain things "that it may be fulfilled which was spoken of by the prophets...". These are probably either made-up stories (i.e. Jesus didn't really do those things), or maybe Jesus DID do those things deliberately because he wanted to be seen as "the messiah". Either way, these can't be counted as proof of supernatural prophecies.

There are quite a few failed prophecies in the Bible. Therefore it would be entirely reasonable to suppose that the authors also managed to get something right: they should be quite capable of making a "lucky guess". Which makes it all the more surprising that they apparently never managed to do so: apparently the Bible has a 0% success rate on prophecy (after eliminating the written-after-the-event stuff, the unverifiable stuff, the hopelessly-vague stuff, and so on).

Joan of Bark

You still haven't addressed my post #24, Jenny. How can Jesus be both a descendent of David AND born of a virgin?

Yellum Notnef

Where have all the resident professional bible "scholars" gone to? Plenty of time to sit at the keyboard all day to straighten out and pick fights with other non believers who don't not believe properly, but ole jenny shows up (who could really use some straightening out) and nothing. Zilch. Silence.

spin

Jenny911,

This idea of wonderful fulfilled prophecy is a christian debasement of literature stolen from the Jews.

Take for instance the so-called prophecy of virgin birth from Isaiah 7:14 based on a fraudulent translation. There is nothing in the Hebrew about a virgin. It merely talks of a young woman who had reached the age that she was fertile. The text isn't a prediction that she would become pregnant: she is already pregnant. It's about the time of Ahaz and deals with the swiftness of an Assyrian invasion. The Hebrew is oh so clear. Read the latest Jewish Publishing Society translation.

Another favorite fraudulent translation is from Ps 22:16, a text which christians claim prophecies that Jesus would have his hands and feet pierced, but of course the Hebrew text says nothing of the kind. It deals with the image of a lion attacking.

The son of man in Daniel 7? Actually, it's not the son of man at all: it's one like a son of man. But christians are so confused about Daniel that they cannot make any coherent meaning out of it.

We have pulled the legs off so many christian prophecy claims on this forum. What we end up with are people showing just how desperate they are to hang on to their errors. I wish christians would leave the Hebrew bible to the Jews, to whom it belongs.


spin

makerowner

I'm no professional, but I addressed the worst claims of her article in post #18. Jenny911, are you going to respond to post #18?

Sheshonq

There are dozens of threads on the very same topic she brought up.

Maybe jenny needs to use the search function, instead of expecting people to re-type the same responses for the 15th time.

Keith&Co.

I'm not bothered by people's beliefs.

It's nothing more to me that people believe in God than those that believe blacks are inferior or women are to be subjugated or muslims are all terrorists. Really. No skin off my teeth.

Now, i do have a problem when people with such beliefs want me to believe them, or to behave as if i believe them, or to tolerate them acting on such beliefs to the point of infringing on the rights of others.

So, what i deal with, spend time/attention/energy on, is not the gods i don't believe in, but the people i do accept as having a basis in reality. Esp. those that want to legislate their beliefs so that i have to live by their standards of behavior. It's odd that the thumpers never seem to 'get' that.

Toto

Okay, start here. We've seen this all before, and none of it stands up as evidence, even to most Christians.

Tacitus - possibly a forgery, perhaps just repeating second hand rumors.

Now this is interesting: Second hand information, and Julian is stating it conditionally - for yourselves allow.... Julian is merely accepting what he was told when he was raised as a Christian, and saying it doesn't constitute a good basis for a religion.

We have two other threads on why the Romans would not have tried to disprove Christianity by claiming that Jesus didn't exist, instead of the tactic that they chose, of showing that the Christian story didn't even make sense on its own terms.

Then your webpage moves on to Josephus, without even mentioning that the longer passage is certainly forged at least in part. Notice how this forgery is conveniently ignored in this paragraph:But a later paragraph includes "facts" that are only in the Josephan account:In short, we have typical apologetic spin doctoring, more interested in finding a few facts that can be distorted to support the Christian party line that in any sort of real inquiry.

But I doubt that pointing this out would make an impact on Jenny911. What do you say, Jenny?

chrisengland

Hello
Would I be right that most prophecies about Jesus are self fulfilling.
Of course Christians do have the right to believe they are prophcies' but should be carefull when using the, as evidence because if they don't meet the five criteiria no atheist well be convinced.
Anyway back to the prophecies, as I said alot of them appear to be self-fillfilling' e.g. the ones about Jesus drinking vinegar or riding into Jerusalem on a donkey could easily be self fulfilled right so they probably won't convince a skeptic.
Also one thing' atheists don't believe that Jesus was born of a virgin anyway.
One thing thought about that though is that' if Christians could prove the word was virgin it would be strange because if I,m right it was never mentioned before that in Judaism of people being bon of virgins that idea came in later so it I suppose a Christian could say even though you don't beleive Jesus was born of a virgin don't you think it is strange the idea was metioned back then' although that probably wouldn't convince them it would be a good point.
Chris