Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Thanks, Mr. Doherty, I appreciate it. I would very much expect that the "second appearance" would be with respect to "those who are waiting for him," given both points that it is the immediate context and that it fits the concurrent ancient Christian perspective that we explicitly know about. If you propose that the "appearance" is actually in heaven, then it seems to come off as improbable and ad hoc--rewriting the evidence to fit your conclusion. Of course you can do that for any passage, and I know that you often do, but I think you need to demonstrate the relative probability of your model, not just the possibility.

Originally Posted by arnoldo

IIRC, there is a verse in the book of revelations which supports ED's hypothesis of heavenly appearance/atonement rather than a literal earthly atonement. The verse states something along the lines of a sacrifice "before the foundation of the earth." Perhaps some fundies would argue that this can indicate both a heavenly and earthly atonement?
</back into lurk mode>