aa5874

Please show me what Jesus wrote? And in what source of ANTIQUITY is it found that Jesus never claimed to be anything than fully human?

Once you admit that the NT is not a single unified account of anything then you must provide your unified source of ANTIQUITY for YOUR claims about Jesus.


Do you think that Homer intended us to believe that Achilles was the offspring of a sea-goddess and that he was mortally wounded when an arrow pierced his heel?

Do you think that the authors of the Jesus story wrote[b] unbelievable[b] things or known fiction about their own Son of God, the offspring of the Holy Ghost, and then claimed others were lying and of the devil when it was said Jesus was only human?

Now, you are proposing that all the Church writers were childish when they described the conception of Jesus just as it is found in the Gospels, but the concept of virgin births of Gods was prevalent in ANTIQUITY.

These are the words of Trypho in Justin Martyr's "Dialogue with Trypho" 57 Virgins births of Gods was acceptable and believed in ANTIQUITY.

Am I suppose to swallow what you write? Tertullian is a writer of ANTIQUITY outside of the Canon.

And, you don't even follow your own advice. Look at your own words.

That is exactly what I am waiting for you to do. Please quote all the passages IN the Canon that state Jesus was only human.

It is already known that the Church writers denied all claims outside the Canon that Jesus was only human.

But, if Jesus means nothing, how do you reconcile his supposed Divinity in Judea?

The Jews did not accept the divinty of a human.

The deification of a Jew in Judea before the Fall of the Temple in the 1st century is an historical implausibility.

This is Philo on Gaius in "On the Embasy to Gaius"

Jesus was nothing but a mythological story.


The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

aa5874

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

So far, no-one has been able to explain what happened after the supposed Jesus died and his body vanished.

Peter had denied any association with Jesus and the disciples are in hiding for fear of the Jews.

In Judea, blasphemy and leading people astray are capital crimes punishable by death.

How will Jesus be deified? Will Peter the liar tell the Jews that Jesus resurrected even though he has no idea where the body of Jesus is located?

ONCE Jesus was only human, the entire NT and the Church writings will have to be discarded and rubbished.

Now, Jesus of the NT, if he was just human then Isaiah 7.14 was not applicable to him. But, the conception of Jesus was supposed to be fulfilled prophecy, authors of the Gospels and the Church writers agreed that Isaiah 7.14 was fulfilled prophecy and the fundamental prophecy about the origin of Jesus.

And it must be noted that the author of Matthew did write that Joseph had no sexual contact with Mary until Jesus was born.

Matthew 1.22-25
If Jesus did really exist, he would NOT have had a mother who was STILL a virgin even after he was born, the story in gMatthew is fiction-based and Isaiah 7.14 is not any prophecy about a human Jesus at all.

But, according to the Church writers, it was a disciple of Jesus who wrote gMatthew. Once the disciple called Matthew knew that Jesus was only human and was born through normal sexual contact why did he provide false or erroneous information in his story about Jesus?

Jesus probably had neighbors, close acquaintances, and followers, if he did really preach, yet for some unknown reason it would mean that his disciples, instead of emulating Jesus as a honest and truthful person, used false information to deify him and then died for the very lies they invented.

The HJ is just SENSELESS, the information clearly show that Jesus was just a mis-guided belief, not history, a story fabricated long after the proposed time of events and likely well away from Judea by unknown writers.

kcdad

Who said anything about writing...??? Find me an affirmative claim in the Gospels that Jesus claimed otherwise? THEN we can discuss it.

Once you admit that the NT is not a single unified account of anything then you must provide your unified source of ANTIQUITY for YOUR claims about Jesus.




For the purposes of the story, yes. As a matter of historical fact, I think not.

I don't understand the question... were the authors around when the "others were lying and of the devil"????? Did they have an internet debate about it?

YOUR words, not mine.

By whom?

EXCELLENT POINT!!!!!!!
And yet they called their various leaders throughout time, LORD, MESSIAH, GOD WITH US, etc...

kcdad

You are just babbling now... out of that entire post, these are fairly rational.

Except, of course, Dominic Crossan clearly explains what happened to the body... it was buried in a shallow grave and was probably dug up and eaten by dogs or (Ironically) swine.


...and instead of discarded, viewed in a different more rational light. Most of the early church writings NEED to have been discarded centuries ago. Many already have been, by other early church writers...

aa5874

You have just confirmed my point that the entire NT and the Church writings will have to be discarded once Jesus was deemed only human.

Now, if what you wrote about Dominic Crossan is true, he appears to have discarded the resurrection story as found in the NT and the Church writings.

Did he also discard the Holy Ghost conception of Jesus, the temptation by the Devil on the pinnacle of the Temple ,and the healing of people born dumb, deaf and blind?

Did he discard the transfiguration with the resurrected Moses and Elijah, that Jesus walked on water and saved the 1st bishop of Rome from drowning, the reurreection and the ascension of Jesus?

Well, if Dominic Crossan did discard those fabulous mythical events, then that is exactly what MUST be done to claim Jesus was only human.


HJers MUST DISCREDIT and DISCARD their SOURCES for Jesus, the NT and the Church writings and then proceed to FABRICATE and INVENT their own Jesus and his history.

We may soon have another Gospel story, the Gospel story according to the HJers, where plausibility is deemed history.

But, it would appear that in Antiquity, the Gospel stories of gMatthew, Mark, Luke, John were just as plausible as the Gospel story of MARCION.

It must be noted that, since the 2nd century, MARCION did discard and discredit the Gospel story and fabricated and invented his own plausible and believable Jesus, according to the Church writers.

It now seems that the HJers would like to emulate MARCION and re-invent Jesus as only a MAN instead of being only a GOD and will no doubt simply use their imagination as their corroborative source.

aa5874

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

In the NT, it is claimed that Jesus, the offspring of the Holy Ghost of God, went on trial before Pilate after he was deemed worthy of death for blasphemy.

But when the trial is examined based on the information supplied by the NT and the Church writers it is appears to be most likely a fictitious account.

One of the most over-looked and problematic elements of the trial surround the witnesses against Jesus.

Now, the Laws of Moses require witnesses to be truthful, a false witness may be punishable by death.

This is found in Deuteronomy on the punishment for false witnesses.

Deuteronony 9.16-20 So based on Deuteronomy, a false witness must be given the very same punishment that he wished for the innocent party.

And further one of the ten Commandments forbids a false witness.

But, examine the Jesus story, at the trial there were many false witnesses.

Mark 14.55-60 Now, the false witnesses against Jesus should have been put to death based on Deuteronomy.

The trial of Jesus appears to be complete fiction where false witnesses against Jesus, contrary to the Laws of the Moses, suffered no consequences for their falsehoods.

The NT and Church writers would have us believe that all law and order were turned upside down both by the Sanhedrin and Pilate for Jesus to be crucified.

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition, even what appears on the surface to be plausible about Jesus turns out to be fiction.

kcdad

Discard???? Ok... discard every single ancient writing that is inaccurate or scientifically incorrect... so everything prior to... lets arbitrarily say 1859.
What is YOUR problem? You don't have to discard something because it is has some problems... otherwise you would be discarded too.

kcdad

Babble babbla babbley Boo

Don't you have anything new to add?

aa5874

It would appear that after you read the first sentence of my posts, you become disoriented.

You appear to be lost for words.

And your response actually reflects the IRRATIONALITY of the HJ position, it is just "Babble babbla babbley Boo".

Now, please answer my questions about what Dominic Crossan discarded from the NT and Church writings.

From what sources of antiquity did Dominic Crossan get his stories about the shallow grave and that the body of Jesus was probably eaten by dogs or swine? Or is just another case of an HJer's "Babble babbla babbley Boo".

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition or

The Dagda

I am the Messiah anyway so obviously the OP is wrong.

Get out of that one Rommel!

See my blog for details and or the wiki Messianic Claimants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants