premjan

What is IIRC? Like AFAIK I guess.
I believe the Mauryan capital Pataliputra (400BC; just scant miles from Siddartha's hometown) was built mainly out of wood, unlike the Indus Valley. It might just have been because the Ganges valley abounded in wood whereas the Indus valley was relatively arid. And the Aryans were more of nature worshippers, who did not build elaborate structures even as temples.

lenrek

I think Zen is a particular form of Buddhism that give their expression in a more abstract manner. However, I have been (as much as I can) use a more descriptive approach when explaining Buddhism to others. Well... As least from most of what I have posted, I personally don't find them speculative nor abstract...

Maybe some will like Theravada Buddhism? Since, some actually call Theravada philosophy as descriptive philosophy. Meaning, it give description on what it is, rather than giving abstract guidance that may turn some people off...

Well... There are many books that give many description about the Buddha. For Buddhist, the greatest source about the Buddha is in the suttas (discources given by Him). Perhaps you should refer to both what is known in the Buddhist circle as well as references from historian's studies. I think both will be quite informative.

This person did exist in our history...

victorialis

There are valuable uses in this potential. Such a mind registers direct perceptions more fully. This provides you with better-quality information, because in a non-grasping mental state, what is perceived does not first have to overcome preconceptions.

Grasping thoughts and feelings are very good at creating preconceptions. They have to do with the past or the future -- with memories or intentions -- not with the present reality of whatever you're looking at. They compound themselves, competing with and distorting the clear, direct perception of which we're all capable.

That's a fact. We couldn't learn to operate in the world without that. The difficulty arises when lasting thoughts and feelings are inappropriate to the present situation: when they prevent seeing, or cause misinterpretation of, the features of the present.

Grasping thoughts and feelings come from past experiences and future plans (desires). On the strength of them, the mind builds the fictitious idea that it knows all it needs to know about x or y, no matter how many unique encounters it has with x or y. The longer we live with that process going on unchecked, the less we can experience fully, so the less we can learn. The mind turns away from a never-ending wealth of sensory data and toward fiddling endlessly with its own constructs, and the world for that mind grows smaller, with steadily decreasing possibilities.

At that point the grasping thoughts and feelings have managed to overtake the whole mechanism.

It's hard to find good writing about Zen that explains this plainly, because Zen practice seeks to wean the mind off of the uncontrolled habit of cultivating ideas for their own sake. Once you learn to stop this habit, the ability isn't gone -- you can resume it at will; and then stop it at will again, when that's useful to you.
If somebody's told you this, they should have said more. Getting rid of it is not the objective. The objective is to get past being in the grip of how your own mind works. That may sound paradoxical, but it isn't. It's quite possible.

The necessary effort looks very much like "getting rid of all that" (this is specifically from a Zen perspective). The practitioner isn't getting rid of anything, really; s/he is getting out from under it and learning to inhabit a broader mindspace -- not just the part where discursive, purpose-oriented thoughts are reflected.

The view from there is different. Experientially, it's like the difference between a skateboard and a Ferrari. As with any learned ability, the will to learn must be present, because it takes persistence. But Zen teaches persistence -- directly.
You're quite right. And the changed perspective available through Zen practice is also human nature. It couldn't be anything else. If you were to find a Zen practice that suited you, you'd still be a human being -- with all of a human being's capabilities, plus one human capability that enhances all the others.

gurugeorge

It's my experience that people with mathematical or engineering minds tend to prefer Theravada, with its practical, methodical approach. Plenty of nice lists, 4 of this, 6 of that, 8 of the other, everything laid out, every possible contingency planned for, every type catered for, no grey areas.

The Pali texts also show the human Buddha to have been a man with a very clever, penetrating intellect, who is at the same time warm and compassionate, with a wry sense of humour.

Personally, I find nothing more repulsive than lists - they make my brain freeze over. I'm a Ch'an(Zen)/Dzogchen man, I like to keep it really simple. But I'm glad Theravada's there, because if you do have a problem in the course of your practice, you can bet your bottom dollar the answer will be there somewhere in the mountainous heaps of Pali texts. (And there is very nearly nothing, apart from some tantric stuff, that isn't in there somewhere. Ch'an brought nothing really new to the table in the way of practice, just in the way of presentation and tuition.)

lenrek

In the Theravada Buddhism, we do not expect everyone to remember all these listing at once. Of course, it will be good that if one can remember all of them...

However, as one practice the teaching, he will gain clarity of the mind. With such clarity, he will easily appreciate these seemingly complex explanation. As, these explanations still (in the end) references to the development, cultivation and purification of the mind. So, take your time... as the development improve, these will become easy...

There are times, I also simply drop all reading, and simply just meditate...

However, getting some understanding before meditation is very good. As, it prepare one on what to expect, what and how to analyze, and what to avoid.

... just my opinion ...

Vajradhara

Namaste all,

let's try this...


www.buddhanet.net

read the information that they present and it will give you a pretty clear view of both the Hinyana and Mahayana Vehicle.. .they also do a fair job of explain the Vajrayana Vehicle.

Buddhism is not for everyone, at least in this life.. and it's a mistake to think that it is. people have varying capacities for things... and this is no exception.

Buddhism is not about suffering... in fact... the word suffering is an english transliteration of the Sanskirt term "dhukka"... which literally means "thirst or craving" depending on the context of the sentence. i would go so far as to say that suffering or anything related to it are tangentially related to awakening.. and perhaps are only related to it through the ego's projection.

rather, from my Vehicles point of view, the idea behind the historical Buddha Shakyamuni turning the Wheel of Dharma is to eradicate ignorance as ignorance is the basic defilement that conditions all others. of course, this is in the 12 Linked Chain and you can really start with any of them on the chain... we just choose to use ignorance as the first one for conversational purposes.

from what i've been able to tell on this thread, the folks that have rejected Buddhism have every reason to do so. heck.. .how could they accept it based on the understanding that they possess?

in a sense, this conversation is like asking a student that understands algebra to use calculus without having been taught how. the student will never get it on their own and will come to reject the entire process as nonsensical.

of course.. if someone explained it properly there is still no guarantee that the student would grasp the information... humans are different and do not have the same capacities.

premjan

I am pretty sure that dukkha means "sorrow".

lenrek

Yes, this is true. In addition, as Buddhist, we will sincerely wish them all the best in their own search...

True! Very true! Buddha not just taught about suffering, He also taught about the ways ending the suffering. That is the path of happiness. To say Buddhism is very depressing or pessimistic is plain wrong or misinform. Heck, there was a study done by scientist and conclude that "Buddhist really are happier":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3047291.stm

We do not live in depression nor being pessimist. We just being realistic. We do not deny the fact of suffering, nor deny the fact of temporary happiness. Is just that we know these mundane happiness are all imperfect. Knowing the limitation of such happiness bring balance into our lives. At same time while enjoying the pleasure that this mundane happiness gave, we know about its impermanent nature, thus making us know to cherish what we have, yet never be overly possessive (clinging/craving/grasping) towards it.

I think, the problem here, the OP started by making a statement/comment about Buddhism. Yet for those who know Buddhism will immediately know, what was stated is not what Buddha taught. I doubt his willingness to accept what he knew is actually a misunderstanding (even after admitted as not an expert in Buddhism)...

I think another issue here, I suspect, the OP hold much to the happiness and enjoyment in his/her life. When some Buddhist explained the impermanent nature of existence, he/she immediately find it offensive and decided or simply label Buddhist as a nut-case or simply insane, and no intention of further investigation. The only things he/she is looking for are more reasons to reject Buddhism...

Yes... Absolutely true...

--- Just my comment ---

premjan

if buddhism (and other mysticism) helps to bridge the gap between the "old" and "new" brains, then it is not too surprising that it can help people to be happier. I think Buddhism is probably the best of the old methods of "mysticism" in this regard.

Vajradhara

Namaste premjan,

really? for old mystical traditions... i'm rather fond of the Taoist Alchemical schools.. and, not to leave my western friends behind... i am fascinated with the Golden Dawn tradition as well.

though... a lot of the western mystical traditions... O.T.O and I.O.T. and that lot, to my way of thinking, are missing the picture... but hey... it works for them