Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Rhea · 06-06-2006, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedshaker

Not sure how he got on but it was interesting to read about his plight.
:

I'm pretty sure Johnny scholar is still posting, and had some difficulties with spouse

over the issue. Unless I'm confusing him with another poster.

Rhea · 06-06-2006, 06:52 AM

Funny, how it seems in many deconversions here and through other avenues, it's not the arguments that turn the tide of thought. It's the unanswered questions...

The question doesn't need to have an atheist answer to crumble the theist answer. A thought-provoking question seems to be the only thing needed to start an avalanche of other thought-provoking questions heretofore unquestioned. But it is seldom the atheist answer which starts this avalanche, is it?

An interesting thought...

Hedshaker · 06-06-2006, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhea

I'm pretty sure Johnny scholar is still posting, and had some difficulties with spouse

over the issue. Unless I'm confusing him with another poster.

No I think that's the same one. Last I heard he was on the verge of braking up with his wife and was looking for a different job. Some comments he made that struck me were when he was teaching some students about a certain doctrine, and wondering to himself if these people were actually swallowing it.

Personally I value honesty above all else. But I accept it must be truely gut wrenching to break away from a belief system that your whole world is embroiled in like that.

But what else can you do? Once the genie is out, she want to stay out

ZouPrime · 06-06-2006, 07:32 AM

Hello Jon.

Anyone can change his opinion on a topîc and admit to be wrong. But it takes a very high dose of humility to actually come back here and say it on a public forum. I salute you.

Pierre Bezukhov · 06-06-2006, 08:17 AM

Welcome back, Jon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhea

The question doesn't need to have an atheist answer to crumble the theist answer. A thought-provoking question seems to be the only thing needed to start an avalanche of other thought-provoking questions heretofore unquestioned. But it is seldom the atheist answer which starts this avalanche, is it?

So true. As I thought to myself soon after deconverting, it wasn’t the atheists with their answers who pulled me toward atheism, it was the theists with their answers who pushed me there.

Ezkerraldean · 06-06-2006, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre Bezukhov

So true. As I thought to myself soon after deconverting, it wasn’t the atheists with their answers who pulled me toward atheism, it was the theists with their answers who pushed me there.

definately, its that that really did it for me.

welcome [back] john!
ive only been here for a week so i dont think i remember you

kitkat · 06-06-2006, 08:41 AM

Jon,

Last year I deconverted from Methodism to Agnosticism and took up meditation and visualization as tools to destress. I use tarot card imagery to meditate and have read up on meditation techniquest used by TM's, Buddhists, and Hindus. The techniques translate easily to secular "creative visualization". You may want to look into those types of things to face the stresses and the rejection you've faced so far and will face again. You don't have to "meditate" on your "soul" or another diety, just mediate on "Places". My favorite thought stream is meditating on dragons and phoenixes flying and dancing. They're mythological creatures, but they provide the focus for the process.

Sincerely,
Katherine

Zygote · 06-06-2006, 10:01 AM

The main tripping point with faith is that, well, you have to take it on faith.

Once you start looking for reasonable and consistent evidence to back it up, you're already on your way out. It seems to be difficult to be rational, rigorous and religious all at the same time.

Proxima Centauri · 06-06-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Curry

But I did risk strain in my marriage and with my family. Fortunately for me my wife has been great. She's still a Christian and probably always will be. But she is not uncomfortable with my new found beliefs. My parents are another matter. I'm still not sure what will happen. I love them dearly and they love me as well. They also love my siblings and are afraid if I'm around I may end up leading them to hell. It's such a frightening prospect for them. How can they claim they love their children when they are willing to risk their eternal souls by allowing me to be around? This is the struggle my father has, and I love him for that devotion he has to his children. All my other Christian relatives and all my Christian friends (pretty much all of my friends are Christians) think he's crazy, but I don't. I think he takes Christianity more seriously than any of them, and I respect him for it.

It's been 6 months since my Dad discovered my beliefs and I'm not out of the family yet. But he struggles with it and it could still happen. It's funny. I want to say something like "keep me in your prayers." It's sort of programmed in to me. That's the way you end stories like that. God might exist. But I don't think he answers prayers. I'm on my own here. But better to know that then to hope an imaginary friend would help.

Below I’ve put some Bible quotations, which frequently help.
“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." --Matthew 16:27 (KJV)
"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." --John 5:29 (KJV)
"[God] will render to every man according to his deeds, to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life...." --Romans 2:6,7 (KJV).

The above Bible quotations could help your parents especially your father to be a bit less concerned about imagined eternal wellbeing. It cxould also help those around you. You could suggest nicely that your family and friends should concentrate on helping each other to continue as moral people. They can’t deny it without admitting the bible is contradictory. They may not know the sections of the bible, which contradict the above. You can look it all up in the Skeptics Annotated Bible.
Thanks, Ebonmuse for the insightful website.

Jon Curry · 06-06-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziffel

Have you read christ-on-a-stick's amazing decoversion story?

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=72552

Absolutely incredible. What pure hell she went through. It's scary to read because it makes me realize what I may have put myself through had I married a woman that was more like me. I was the arch conservative Christian. I could see myself in some instances acting like Vincent. But the girl I married had just a small dose of liberalism in her. That's why I loved her though. She's spunky and tough. But I'd tease her and call her a feminist or a liberal. But that is what allows her to be just a little more accepting and comfortable with my views. She thinks I'm going to hell though. Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode. Elaine says to Putty "I'm not going to hell, but if I was going to hell you should care that I'm going to hell. But I am not going to hell." Makes sense for my wife to be freaking out, but I prefer her inconsistency and laid back attitude.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-06-2006, 06:52 AM	#22
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	Funny, how it seems in many deconversions here and through other avenues, it's not the arguments that turn the tide of thought. It's the unanswered questions... The question doesn't need to have an atheist answer to crumble the theist answer. A thought-provoking question seems to be the only thing needed to start an avalanche of other thought-provoking questions heretofore unquestioned. But it is seldom the atheist answer which starts this avalanche, is it? An interesting thought...

06-06-2006, 07:32 AM	#24
ZouPrime Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 3,832	Hello Jon. Anyone can change his opinion on a topîc and admit to be wrong. But it takes a very high dose of humility to actually come back here and say it on a public forum. I salute you.

06-06-2006, 08:41 AM	#27
kitkat Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Olathe, Kansas Posts: 21	Jon, Last year I deconverted from Methodism to Agnosticism and took up meditation and visualization as tools to destress. I use tarot card imagery to meditate and have read up on meditation techniquest used by TM's, Buddhists, and Hindus. The techniques translate easily to secular "creative visualization". You may want to look into those types of things to face the stresses and the rejection you've faced so far and will face again. You don't have to "meditate" on your "soul" or another diety, just mediate on "Places". My favorite thought stream is meditating on dragons and phoenixes flying and dancing. They're mythological creatures, but they provide the focus for the process. Sincerely, Katherine

06-06-2006, 10:01 AM	#28
Zygote Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 766	The main tripping point with faith is that, well, you have to take it on faith. Once you start looking for reasonable and consistent evidence to back it up, you're already on your way out. It seems to be difficult to be rational, rigorous and religious all at the same time.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.