spamandham

What if you think the Christian literature has a heck of a lot to do with Jewish background, but since Christianity is obviously not Judaism, that it must have had other influences beyond merely the Jewish scriptures?

Toto

Michael Turton writes: Oxen of thunder?

Juststeve

Perhaps a stampede of oxen sounds like thunder.

Steve

spamandham

Are you speculating this because Mark explains that they were loud?

Juststeve

No, Just elaborating on Toto's comment about oxen of thinder.

Steve

bacht

No, just a bunch of bull----

Elijah

Grants them powers how? Do you think Jesus is just plain magical without any understanding on how; or is this part of the faith leads to power meme they have going on in the narrative?

Giving them an order and authority do something specific with the ability they have doesn’t mean he is giving them those powers, only just saying that is what you have the power (thru faith)and authority to do, given to them by the messiah.

Missing the faith aspect to the gospels I think is missing a major point of the story.

8:48 Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace.

8:50 “Do not fear; only believe and she will be well.”

Not just with healing but the storms to.

8:25 “Where is your faith?”

Isn’t this more like conviction of spirit to convert the other nations into the kingdom of heaven? Did the disciples’ powers get jacked up after he died beyond healing and casting daemons out? Speaking in tongues and being able to be understood is the power after the Pentecost or are you speaking about something more?
And that specific power of “fire from heaven” is found in the story of one of the characters in the OT they are trying to compare Jesus to, which makes it more likely the influence and point; versus being a nod to a Greek poem or that these characters in the story are supposed to actually be those figures from one of those poems. Not sure what your position is exactly.

spamandham

Jesus is plain magical. He fulfills wishes for those who have faith, and has the ability to grant magic powers to whomever he chooses to fit his purposes as well.

Jesus grants wishes due to faith, it isn't that the faith itself has magic power.

No. It's the granting of magic powers from heaven. There is no mention at all that the power is due to faith.

I'm not going to argue that Jesus is *not* the anti-Elijah, he very well may be, but nevertheless, the author picked the sons of thunder to offer to reign down lightning.

Now, you might argue that this is an intentional plot device - sort of satirical - and I might even buy that argument, but nonetheless James and John are intentionally representing sons of Jupiter.

Elijah

Sure there is a mention of it, you have just decided to take that part as being figurative, while you take the miracles as literal and going it’s just magic. I would highly recommend rereading the miracles in the story, from his conception to the resurrection of Lazarus, from the faith perspective and not it is just cartoon magic going on.
Could be but I think more likely it was just a limited number of people to choose from when they were trying to write the scene and picked the two most likely candidates to be there; who would have that temperament. Why Peter isn’t there is really the only question. Maybe because they used Peter for the transfiguration scene right before.

spamandham

...because it clearly is. Even most Christian theologians interpret it that way.

The author could have picked anyone he wanted for this scene, or he could have had lightning just sporadically start striking and Jesus hold out his hand to stop it. He was free to compose this scene any way he wanted. I don't see how further discussion is going to be fruitful.