Plognark

In my readings I came across this in a current thread:

And figured that, rather than completely de-rail that thread, i'd see what other people think of this, since we've heard it before about a thousand times. I don't know about anyone else, but I get really really tired seeing the same arrogant assumptions about who and what we are and are not.

*sigh*

Edit: Here's the original thread. http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=90539

Godless Wonder

Maybe a year ago, when I first joined up here, ssomeone on this board (I forgot who) reported that once, as an experiment, they spent a few weeks pretending that someone was watching them, "out to get them" etc, and reported that after awhile, it really began to seem that someone was out to get them, and it took quite a long time (months) to get over this very paranoid feeling and be "back to normal." I remember this because it struck me as a really odd and brave experiment to try on oneself.

I don't see how doing this, or what is suggested in the quote made in the OP is anything less than brainwashing yourself.

Plognark

The human capacity for self deception is boundless.

I forget who said that, but i've yet to find truer words.

blt to go

Plognark: I, too, saw the quote and almost commented on it. Good on ya for starting another thread.

1) There are too many ex-christians on this thread (myself included) that did this exact thing for decades, not just 2 months. And came up empty.

2) It is a "self-fulfilling" prophecy. If you look for "coincidences" and "god-moments" you will find them.

I would not recommend the extreme example Godless Wonder cited. Try something more simple. For two months concentrate on a particular word. For example, "inundated." You will be AMAZED at how many times this particular word will appear in print, be on TV, heard in the movies, etc. Is it an influx in the use of the word? No, you are simply noticing it because you are specifically looking for it. Society is not being inundated by it. (That's ONE. )

Hedshaker

It's something to do with how we seek patterns like familiar shapes in clouds etc. And like when you buy a different model car to your usual, you hardly noticed then before but suddenly they're everywhere.

Maybe that converted dude should try (genuinely) think like an atheist for two months. With any luck is delusions would disapear. He would see reality more clearly. He wouldn't be able to convince a Christian, but he would know

Orbit

King Rat

It's story time again.

I was once on a two week camping trip in the High Uintahs with four friends. Three of them were Mormons, one was a Catholic, and then me; The Infidel. After hiking about 20 miles in we camped at the shore of a beautiful mountain lake (Squaw Lake).

There are many legends and tall tales about this region of the west, most having to do with lost Spanish gold and dead Indian spirits. We spent a few nights comparing notes of what tales we had heard in common and telling stories. The rest of the time we spent relaxing, hiking, orienteering, etc.

On the fifth day we were all hiking together and we came across an old mine. I happened to have a small flashlight and so I looked in to see how far back it went. Old mines are dangerous things, especially if they haven't been shored up properly. This one had large pine buttresses and looked to go pretty far back. I still knew better than to go a few feet past the entrance. A small stream flowed down the middle and out of the mouth of the mine. I looked at the walls and could still see the remnants of the vein the Spanish miners had been following. It was a pretty thick vein of quartz but I couldn't see any color. It had likely been played out. I used my knife to pry off a loose piece of the quartz and put it in my pocket.

At this point I noticed that none of my friends were around. I stepped out into the sun and looked around, no-one. My first thought was that they had seen a bear or a mountain lion, so I edged back into the mine a little and surveyed the area, nothing. Oh well, I guess I better head back to the campsite. As I was hiking back I took some photos of the area and marked it on my map. I made a note not to drink from the stream that came from this area. Since it flowed from the old mine, it was probably full of heavy metals and toxic chemicals. It was an absolutely beatiful location though and I wanted to return. About a mile away from the mine one of my friends called to me and I headed his way.

When I reached him he was obviously spooked and nervous.
"Did you see that?" he gasped.

"See what?"

"The Indian on the horse!"

"There was an Indian on a horse?"

"Yeah!"

"Where was he?"

"In the treeline just below the mouth of the mine."

"I didn't see anything"

"Didn't you feel that evil feeling?'

"Huh, What the hell are you talking about?"

"A darkness, I felt it just before you went into the mine."

"Nope, I didn't feel anything, where are the rest of the guys?"

"They took off when I took off."

"Let's head back towards camp and see if we can find them."

As we hiked on we met the rest of the guys and they told stories about a "feeling" and being spooked and seeing stuff. None of them would return to the mine they said.

They were flabbergasted that I hadn't seen or felt anything. They were even more freaked when I told them that I wanted to go back to the mine at some point during this trip. "We were warned away," they said.

To this day I don't know what they saw or felt. I have returned to that mine and surrounding forest a few times since and haven't seen or felt anything except awe at nature and a feeling of peace (I was there just a month ago).

I think people are highly suggestible, especially if they are predisposed to magical thinking. Either that, or I am immune to the supernatural. I think the former is much more likely.

Plognark

I'm not personally a theist, nor have I ever been (just can't get it to work in my mind), but I know a large number, if not a majority, of the posters here were theists for decades. I don't know, the blatant, arrogant, presumption just ticked me off.
It's amazing how many new thiests who comes here appear to think they have something new and earth shattering to offer and convert the heathen sinners. It's like the same crap on a different serving tray, one week to the next, and then they slink away, using the "shake the dust from my feet" line, insulted and puzzled when we get annoyed and critique their canned arguments.

stardog

I think there is an assumption being made by theists that non-theists are ignorant of their arguments. When they get their arguments taken apart piece by piece and handed back to them, they are astounded. They back away quickly.

Deacon Doubtmonger

Linky: A Response to "The Skeptic's Prayer"

Puck

Years back in desparation, I joined Al-Anon and muddled through the god stuff. One day when something smarmy was said to me, I thought "okay, if there's a god and you are there, do something with this because I can't and won't anymore". I thought of the slogan "Let go and let god". Suddenly the tension I was feeling over the words said by a loved one melted away from me. For years afterwards I said I was spiritual, not religious. Turning over the BS in my life to an invisible spook was a relief and what I needed at the time. I self inflicted a huge imaginary burden on myself.

Once I got used to not piling up crap on myself, I was able to realize that all my problems I had placed on myself only in my own mind, and the psycological use of an imaginary god gave me the chance to learn how to live without carrying around other peoples shit. It's been an easy and natural transition back to nonbelief in spooks after I got used to being responsible for only my own shit.

Now a days, I have a hard time admitting that at one time, I thought there may have been something 'out there'. Coming here was a great help in understanding how we can believe in something we don't really believe in.