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Old 06-24-2005, 10:07 PM   #41
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Being number one and on top in any area, religion, sports, school, etc., people are always going to find fault and tear you down. It is easier to find fault with another than having to look at oneself. 2000 years later, after trials and tribulations, and long after you and I are gone, the CATHOLIC church, Roman Catholic will still be there. The media and envious resentful people tried to find fault with even the recently deceased pope, who had done nothing wrong to anyone but stand his ground on the church's teachings and beliefs in God. If anything we had all witnessed one of the few people in our lifetime who walked closest in the footsteps of Jesus.

Most importantly it is men/women that are sinful that are the issue, not most religions themselves that were intended and continue to be for the good of others and for God.


People, particularly in the US who claim to be Catholic but want to see the church change, just don't get it. The church has steadfastly held onto all of it's teachings, dogmas and beliefs, etc. The church won't be watered down and "americanized" to justify people's own selfish and sinful nature. Rather people in the US need to start getting it, that they need to change.

All the talk about popes and the numbers etc. will have no bearing on the fact that the Catholic church is and will remain strong. There will always be imperfections and sinful humans who are involved in the church since we are all sinful and not perfect.
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:17 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas II
This is strange, because for a person who was supposed to be organizing a new "church" Jesus did not leave any instructions.
And did he want to start a new religion? No sign of that whatsoever.
Jesus was a rabbi. He already had a religion. Had no intention to create a new one.
Paul is the one who took everything to another level. It is Paul's religion, and Paul's Catholic Church.(and Emperor Constantine's Roman Catholic Church)
Jesus was in Heaven, probably just scratching his head, and going "What the fuck?... :huh: "

Jesus was a rabbi, as in teacher, but was not accepted by his own religion and was actually outcast. His close followers were actually part of what today would be considered a radical cult, in the Qumran community.

Paul's religion and Paul's catholic church?....and who did Paul follow after his conversion? Who led and taught Paul? He did not just do what he wanted to do but what Jesus taught and wanted him to do. Yes, he took things to another level, that is what Jesus wanted him to do, to evangelize. Paul was a leader, but he was also a follower of Jesus and did His will.
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Old 06-25-2005, 10:08 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Joan of Bark
According to my Encyclopaedia Britannica Almanac 2003 "A confusion in the numbering of popes named John after John XIV resulted because some 11th-century historians mistakenly believed that there had been a pope named John between antipope Boniface VII and the true John XV. Therefore they mistakenly numbered the real popes John XV to XIX and John XVI to XX. These popes have since customarily been renumbered XV to XIX, but John XXI and John XXII continue to bear numbers that they themselves formally adopted on the assumption that there had indeed been 20 Johns before them."

So much for papal infallibility.
Since the number of previous popes with your name is hardly a question of faith or morals, papal infallibility does not apply.

Andrew Criddle
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:45 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by hughmcjr
The church has steadfastly held onto all of it's teachings, dogmas and beliefs, etc.
If you believe that, then you are sadly ignorant of your Church's own history--as told by the Church itself.

Where shall we start? Justification of slavery, married priests, Limbo.
How about the Syllabus of Errors? Or have you even heard of it? Now THERE is a great, official Church document worth discussin.

Yes. The Church can be defended, but not by someone makes the wild generalizations that you do. I can't help but wonder if you may not be a Protestant fundamentalist in disguise who is trying to undermine the Catholic Church.

If I'm wrong, and if you are genuinely an apologist for the Church, do a little reading. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia--available online--is a place to start. Get some good arguments there and then come back.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:48 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by andrewcriddle
Since the number of previous popes with your name is hardly a question of faith or morals, papal infallibility does not apply.

Andrew Criddle
Maybe that's why the Church refuses to list a Pope John XX. He was a she named Joan.
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Old 06-25-2005, 10:11 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by John A. Broussard
If you believe that, then you are sadly ignorant of your Church's own history--as told by the Church itself.

Where shall we start? Justification of slavery, married priests, Limbo.
How about the Syllabus of Errors? Or have you even heard of it? Now THERE is a great, official Church document worth discussin.

Yes. The Church can be defended, but not by someone makes the wild generalizations that you do. I can't help but wonder if you may not be a Protestant fundamentalist in disguise who is trying to undermine the Catholic Church.

If I'm wrong, and if you are genuinely an apologist for the Church, do a little reading. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia--available online--is a place to start. Get some good arguments there and then come back.
You keep blaming the institution or institutions, when you need to focus on people who are human, sinful and make mistakes.

Same with many who try to blame religion for wars, violence and conflict.
Actually it is not suprising many try to find something or someone to blame and religion has been the biggest culprit, or has it. The truth is no religion in and of itself has ever created a war, rather it is weak, sinful, selfish human beings that have created every conflict and war. Yes, they may do it in the name of their said religion but it is humans that are at fault. Most religions were created and are intended for good, but again it is weak, sinful humans who screw it up.
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Old 06-26-2005, 02:14 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by hughmcjr
You keep blaming the institution or institutions, when you need to focus on people who are human, sinful and make mistakes.
Wait one minute!!!!!

This is a pope--a pope!--who published the Syllabus of Errors and stated explicitly that any Catholic who believed any one of those errors was in danger of losing his immortal soul.

This is not a simple human being susceptable to making mistakes. This is a POPE, the head of the Holy Catholic Apostolic church defining doctrine for the faithful.

Here's one example (I have lots more to go). Do you agree that it is an error to believe that "The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church"?

Think your answer over carefully since, if you are a Catholic, your immortal soul is at stake.
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Old 06-26-2005, 05:12 PM   #48
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hughmcjr, there are other Catholic churches.
In Inidia we have Malankar Catholic church , Malabar Catholic Church. Besides Eastern Europe has its own Catholic churches like Syrian Catholic church
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Old 06-26-2005, 07:15 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John A. Broussard
If you believe that, then you are sadly ignorant of your Church's own history--as told by the Church itself.

Where shall we start? Justification of slavery, married priests, Limbo.
How about the Syllabus of Errors? Or have you even heard of it? Now THERE is a great, official Church document worth discussin.
Hello John, I can't help but think that the Catholic Church made these ambiguities to help protestants create a theology of their own so they can wallow in their own mire.
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Old 06-26-2005, 07:23 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John A. Broussard
If you believe that, then you are sadly ignorant of your Church's own history--as told by the Church itself.

Where shall we start? Justification of slavery, married priests, Limbo.
How about the Syllabus of Errors? Or have you even heard of it? Now THERE is a great, official Church document worth discussin.

Yes. The Church can be defended, but not by someone makes the wild generalizations that you do. I can't help but wonder if you may not be a Protestant fundamentalist in disguise who is trying to undermine the Catholic Church.

If I'm wrong, and if you are genuinely an apologist for the Church, do a little reading. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia--available online--is a place to start. Get some good arguments there and then come back.
Please let's talk about INDULGENCES...Please!!!
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