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Reload this Page Book of Genesis: Written Record? Or Oral Tradition?
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:51 PM   #21
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I've just seen this thread - but it's late here and my wife has just pointedly said to me that she's going to bed now.

I'll post a proper response to the OP in the morning.

Sorry Dave, but given the choice between talking to you and shagging my wife - she wins every time...
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:25 PM   #22
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What happened to the ark of the covenant? What happened to other valuable artifacts of antiquity? Just because we don't have them doesn't mean they never existed.
Oh, come on. Everyone knows what happened to the ark of the covenant.

It was crated up and left in a huge warehouse at the end of the film.
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:29 PM   #23
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What happened to the ark of the covenant? What happened to other valuable artifacts of antiquity? Just because we don't have them doesn't mean they never existed.
Yeah, and the Tarnhelm, and Excalibur, and the Golden Fleece, and the Winnowing Oar, and the Aegis, and the Book of Thoth, and Gleipnir, and Palladium, and on and on and on. I'm sure of them existed, too.
But they weren't in afdave's favourite book! So they were obviously made up! Unlike the ark of the covenant, which definitely existed because it was in dave's book!
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:36 PM   #24
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What happened to the ark of the covenant? What happened to other valuable artifacts of antiquity? Just because we don't have them doesn't mean they never existed.
Since we don't have them, we can't prove that they ever existed.
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:10 PM   #25
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There is one other Presupposition of the Documentarians which needs to be pointed out ...

Anti-supernaturalism

McDowell actually does a whole chapter on this one.

More Monday.
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:32 PM   #26
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What happened to the ark of the covenant? What happened to other valuable artifacts of antiquity? Just because we don't have them doesn't mean they never existed.
Oh, come on. Everyone knows what happened to the ark of the covenant.

It was crated up and left in a huge warehouse at the end of the film.
Isn't it supposed to be in Ethiopia someplace?
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:51 PM   #27
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Is this growing numbers of scholars? How many? Scholars in what? Peer reviewed skepticism? Published where?
It's probably minimalists anyway. Seriously, rejection of DH, if it ever prevails, does not necessarily play into traditionalist's favor. Quite the opposite.
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:17 PM   #28
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There is one other Presupposition of the Documentarians which needs to be pointed out ...

Anti-supernaturalism

McDowell actually does a whole chapter on this one.

More Monday.
McDowell has been shown to be ignorant, illogic, and wrong on every point.

But thanks for playing, Dave. I hope that someday you will actually start a topic that you actully know something about.
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Old 09-22-2007, 09:21 PM   #29
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There is one other Presupposition of the Documentarians which needs to be pointed out ...

Anti-supernaturalism

McDowell actually does a whole chapter on this one.

More Monday.
Yes, a prejudice against using the unknown to explain the known. A belief, so far never falsified, that the universe works according to natural law, and not magic.

Do you have any evidence that your "supernatural" causes actually exist?

No.

And you've still not given the tiniest hint that you even know what the documentary hypothesis is, Dave. Once again, you're provided us with an example of what it is not.
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Old 09-23-2007, 12:40 AM   #30
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I have elsewhere claimed that the Documentary Hypothesis (JEDP Theory/Oral Tradition) is receiving increasing skepticism by scholars
You have indeed - and I see that this latest post simply repeats the claim but you still have not supported it.

Which scholars have recently abandoned the DH, Dave?

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Dean Anderson wants to debate me on this and wants to do it formally. I said I'd love to at some point, but before I do that, I would want the time to assemble original sources which is very time consuming.

So ... for the moment, I say let's just have discussion and see what we can learn.
I don't really expect you to learn anything, Dave - but let's see how it goes.

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Josh McDowell wrote an excellent critique of the Documentary Hypothesis way back in 1975 and he states that there are 4 basic assumptions upon which the DH is built:

From McDowell, Josh, Evidence that Demands a Verdict, Vol. 2, Here's Life Publishers, 1975. Table of Contents ...

DOCUMENTARY PRESUPPOSITIONS
1) Priority of source analysis over archaeology
2) Natural view of Israel's religion and history
3) No writing in Israel at Moses' time
4) Legendary view of the patriarchal narratives

And we can stop right there.

None of those are basic assumptions upon which the DH is built. McDowell is (surprise, surprise) attacking a strawman of his own invention.

So, let's start again. I'll go first this time...
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