Clouseau

"In sure and certain hope of the resurrection"- words familiar to some of us from countless detective TV programs. What insight does a dream or vision of resurrection have for a funeral party gathered round a grave? Real, physical death is more certain than income tax, and people are not so keen on that. The whole Christian revelation is brought about on account of two facts: death, and judgment- 'Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment' Heb 9:27 NIV. Paul's preaching was to prepare people so that they would be able to survive judgment after death, and this was made feasible because of the resurrection of Jesus.

'Paul, an apostle — sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.' Gal 1:1 NIV

'If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, because we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised, because if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.' 1 Co 15:13-20

'Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel.' 2 Ti 2:8 NIV

aa5874

Fundamentalism laid the foundation for the liberals. Their nonsensical views were at one time and even today condoned and upheld by State Power.

"It is unlawful for any man to bring forward or to wrtite, or to compose a different faith as a rival to that established by the holy Fathers......." excerpts from the 3rd Ecumenical Council, the fore-runners of literalism.

judge

Well, I don't identify as an orthodox christian, but probably have a lot of common ground with them (but hey I have alot of common ground with atheists too).

For me , when given the "newspaper report" that Jesus was crucified and rose form the dead 2000 years ago there is a certain ammount of .."so what?"

But, one is not encouraged in orthodox christian circles to say "so what?" about this.

Is there some way this being a newspaper report rather than something else, helps me now, empowers me now to be a better person?

Roger Pearse

I was under the impression that fundamentalism didn't exist prior to the rise of that 19th century liberal theology. Its proponents succeeded in pushing all the Christians out of their institutions, but, since those liberal ideologies are now held by no-one and their churches teeter on the edge of financial collapse, it might reasonably be asked which side 'won'.

The idea that fundamentalism is in decline is contradicted incessantly on the mass media, which keeps warning us of the threat to 60's values from this. Whether this is so, of course, I would hardly know.

That's what their opponents used to say prior to 1914, tho. WW1 destroyed utterly the climate in which those opponents could alone exist, however.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

mountainman

If the dominant paradigm in the ancient Graeco-Roman antiquity
relating to the concept of the fate of souls after this life was
descendent from the Pythagoreans, then surely it was the concept
of the transmigration of the soul, as is essentially the
concept of the Buddhist and Hindu, in the term reincarnation.

It appears to me that the Christianity was designed to break
the sway of these clearly more ancient precepts and concepts
for a specific reason, at a specific epoch in antiquity, by the
substitution of textual technology, such as the above,
to capture the simple-minded by monstrous tales.

My non-literalist interpretation of the scripture is that the
raw materials (losts of Q documents from now-unknown sages)
were available to Constantine in the library of Rome and elsewhere.
Names were changed, texts "massaged" and forged.

Who lost out the most at the state implementation of Constantine's
"New and Strange Religion" (as described by Eusebius)? A few of
the head priests at eastern Pythagorean / Esclepius Temples lost
their lives by execution, the temples raised to the ground, and
their writings -- which had been preserved for centuries, and
which transmitted the Pythagorean/Buddhist/Hindu concept of
the transmigration of the soul -- were burnt, to be substituted
with texts dealing with the "Resurrection of the god of the
observable Cosmos within the Hubble Limit". Myopia extreme.

Monstrous fables and forgery, for the simple minded.


Best wishes,



Pete Brown