Freethought & Rationalism Archive

God's Will Hunting · 10-04-2004, 08:42 PM

It seems inevitable that when discussing xianity with its adherents, that the conversation will come down to the suggestion "Well, just read John verse (fill in the blank) and you'll see what I mean." Or "Read Paul:4,123 and then you'll KNOW". As if reading a certain verse will make me all of a sudden see the light and be saved. (This just happened to me, yet again, hence the post)

My question: what is your favorite verse to point out the lunacy of whole fantasy story. Irrational statements, blatant untruths, contradictions, etc that will make most xians hesitate, and maybe even (heaven forbid

), think. Verses that are unlikely to have been brought up in a sermon or during bible study. My target audience is a "typical" xian who has a spoon fed understanding of the scriptures. Any NT verses would be especially helpful, since many xians focus on this, and the OT is rife with preposterous passages.

Reality Amplifier · 10-04-2004, 09:43 PM

This one isn't from the bible itself, but it is about the bible. It's pretty on target...

Quote:

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the bible is filled, it would seem more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind. -
Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

WCH · 10-04-2004, 11:51 PM

For Thomas Paine, I much prefer this paragraph:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

People in general know not what wickedness there is in this pretended word of God. Brought up in habits of superstition, they take it for granted that the Bible is true, and that it is good; they permit themselves not to doubt of it, and they carry the ideas they form of the benevolence of the Almighty to the book which they have been taught to believe was written by his authority. Good heavens! it is quite another thing, it is a book of lies, wickedness, and blasphemy; for what can be greater blasphemy, than to ascribe the wickedness of man to the orders of the Almighty!

For Bible verses, check out the "Contest: What verse is the best secular comeback to John 3:15? " thread for various verses people have suggested.

Revenge of Montezuma · 10-05-2004, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by God's Will Hunting

My question: what is your favorite verse to point out the lunacy of whole fantasy story. Irrational statements, blatant untruths, contradictions, etc that will make most xians hesitate, and maybe even (heaven forbid

), think. Verses that are unlikely to have been brought up in a sermon or during bible study.

As you say, the OT is quite a mine for quotes of the more preposterous kind. Nonetheless, I think that Numbers 31 v.17-19 are worth bringing to attention every now and then. In fact the whole chapter is a wonderful testimony to the ways of the merciful god. Note that the chapter begins with the command from Yahweh, which is then carried out by Moses.

As for the NT, one quote off the top of my head comes from Luke chapter 16, which contains the most blatant contradictions in the course of four verses. At verse 9, Christ admonishes us to "make friends by the mammon of unrighteousness". At verse eleven he further states that acting this way, being trusted with the "unrighteous mammon" is some kind of preparation for divine service. Then at verse 13, he flatly states that "ye cannot serve both God and mammon".

Apart from the contradiction, the first verse cited here seems to be advocating worldly hypocrisy of the most devious kind.

Bold · 10-05-2004, 01:33 AM

Genesis 6:4. Has to be.

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Giants, sex with gods, the grandsons of god being mighty men. What more could you ask for? A quest to destroy the one ring?

kelsos · 10-05-2004, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Psalm 58:10
The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance:
he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

To me, that's Christianity in a nutshell.

Bright Life · 10-05-2004, 10:13 AM

I find that quoting the Old Testament atrocities has little effect. The response is usually something along the lines of "Well, Jesus changed all that." Doesn't make sense to me, but that's what I get.

ComestibleVenom · 10-05-2004, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Life

I find that quoting the Old Testament atrocities has little effect. The response is usually something along the lines of "Well, Jesus changed all that." Doesn't make sense to me, but that's what I get.

You could always quote what Jesus had to say about the unchanging reality of the old-testamanet, and the fact that it is the same God. Two sides of the same coin.

PoodleLovinPessimist · 10-05-2004, 02:01 PM

I know I keep trotting this out, but it's too funny.

Quote:

Exodus 33:22-23:

22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

jayG60 · 10-05-2004, 02:31 PM

I had to memorize this for Sunday bible school the summer I was six years old.

1. A good name is better than precious ointment and the day of death than the day of one’s birth.
2. It is better to go to the house of mourning than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men.
3. Sorrow is better than laughter, for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.
4. The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.
5. It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise than for a man to hear the song of fools.

We were a merry bunch of little kiddies. No wonder half of us went on to become alcoholics.

A glass of bitter gall to the IIBer who knows what book this gem is from.

10-04-2004, 08:42 PM	#1
God's Will Hunting Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: usa Posts: 93	Your Favorite Bible Quotes It seems inevitable that when discussing xianity with its adherents, that the conversation will come down to the suggestion "Well, just read John verse (fill in the blank) and you'll see what I mean." Or "Read Paul:4,123 and then you'll KNOW". As if reading a certain verse will make me all of a sudden see the light and be saved. (This just happened to me, yet again, hence the post) My question: what is your favorite verse to point out the lunacy of whole fantasy story. Irrational statements, blatant untruths, contradictions, etc that will make most xians hesitate, and maybe even (heaven forbid ), think. Verses that are unlikely to have been brought up in a sermon or during bible study. My target audience is a "typical" xian who has a spoon fed understanding of the scriptures. Any NT verses would be especially helpful, since many xians focus on this, and the OT is rife with preposterous passages.

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10-05-2004, 01:33 AM	#5
Bold Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 536	Genesis 6:4. Has to be. "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Giants, sex with gods, the grandsons of god being mighty men. What more could you ask for? A quest to destroy the one ring?

10-05-2004, 10:13 AM	#7
Bright Life Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,345	I find that quoting the Old Testament atrocities has little effect. The response is usually something along the lines of "Well, Jesus changed all that." Doesn't make sense to me, but that's what I get.

10-05-2004, 02:31 PM	#10
jayG60 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 2,598	I had to memorize this for Sunday bible school the summer I was six years old. 1. A good name is better than precious ointment and the day of death than the day of one’s birth. 2. It is better to go to the house of mourning than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men. 3. Sorrow is better than laughter, for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better. 4. The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth. 5. It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise than for a man to hear the song of fools. We were a merry bunch of little kiddies. No wonder half of us went on to become alcoholics. A glass of bitter gall to the IIBer who knows what book this gem is from.

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