Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chili · 07-18-2004, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

What?

So why do you think we would need a HS in heaven where all has been made clear? So it can 'come and go' to do what?

Take a good look a the gospel of Luke where the descend of the dove was the direct result of the son and the father becoming one and then visualize this as the left and right brain becoming one in the hypostatic union and you will soon see why the dove is redundant when the father and son become one.

Chili · 07-18-2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Chili, during the nineteenth century the catholic church promoted Mary into a fourth part of the Godhead!

Jung and the quaternity

Well that doesn't say much for Jung because Mary is not the 4th godhead (I didn't read the article). The Coronation is just our recognition that Mary is the queen of heaven and earth and we are willing to place her in charge of our destiny = go by our intuition and place our faculty of reason subservient to it. Don't forget here that we are both the father and the son (as in "my lord and my god"), and Mary is our very own tree of life which includes the tree of knowledge since this is a post-resurrection event.

Chili · 07-18-2004, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Mary as the bride of the Holy spirit!

Hi Clive, yes I know, St. Francis was a nice guy and all but he was either wrong here or he was just trying to put it very mildly to his admirers. Mary is much greater than the HS or it would not descend after the liberation of Mary as co-redeemer while we are in purgatory.

Clivedurdle · 07-19-2004, 03:14 AM

Chilli

May I refer you to the above thread and to Jung's Answers to Job?

The concept of the Queen of Heaven is touching on key mythological and psychological aspects of being human.

We are all conscious of our humanity and our "divinity"(is this consciousness?), and all these myths we create are attempts to express these issues. As it says below, the medieval church went too heavily into a divine Christ, and psychologically needed a human Mary to become a new Christ for us.

Christianity with the concept of the bride of Christ has always had a two way tension - God becoming human and humans becoming God.

Personally, maybe this is why I find the symbol of the tao so fascinating!

Quote:

Individuation requires cultivation of the "theotokos" aspect of personhood: individuation = christification = bearing the divine = giving birth to the "divine substance" of consciousness

And what is the larger theological dimension of "theotokos"? Of the creative nature of Godhead Itself? Primal Theotokos as affirmation of cosmic feminine. The Logos element emerging from the Feminine.

Genesis 1:1: Earth (though unformed) apparently a preexisting presence with Elohim (she became formed after he hovered over her); formation of bodily Christ thus symbolically a parallel to the formation of physical creation itself from a "feminine" nuocontinuum, which is a cosmic Theotokos; physical cosmos as body of the cosmic Christ

These questions about the "nature of Christ" come to the forefront once again if we do indeed face a "new dispensation" based on depth psychology [Edinger]

The nuocontinuum and the psychological perspective give us the opportunity now to foresee a resolution between the "orthodox" and "monophysite" points of view, with respect both to cosmos and the nature of humanity.

This would be an important shift of consciousness, an enantiodromia, a new perspective which runs contrary to its opposite (its complementary pole) yet lives in tension with it.

To the exclusive emphasis on the incarnation of God into the physical world we can add the concept of the intheation of the physical world in God; and it is from the creative mystical tension between the two that new creation and new consciousness arise.

Psychologically speaking, Theotokos is both divine feminine who bears creation, and created feminine who bears Logos as new consciousness; and that Logos/Son having "returned" to the Father, the divineSelf as Holy Spirit then joins "Theotokos" in yet more creation.

Such a view recognizes the mystical marriage of the trinitarian Masculine with its equal Feminine, without allowing the ascendency of one aspect of deity over the other; and the concept is consonant with the view of the organicity of physical creation arising from an all-embracing all-nurturing nonlocal reality.

Note Jung's discussion in Answer to Job of significance of the newly proclaimed dogma of the Assumption of Mary.

Answerer · 07-19-2004, 05:00 AM

Chili talks like Amos..........Another typical christian

Clivedurdle · 07-19-2004, 05:20 AM

Ah, but it is fun rocking a few boats!

Quote:

the mystical marriage of the trinitarian Masculine with its equal Feminine

Magdlyn · 07-19-2004, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

. Mary is much greater than the HS or it would not descend after the liberation of Mary as co-redeemer while we are in purgatory.

Where are you getting this stuff? Is it in some catholic catechism somewhere?

Clivedurdle, I like the cut of your jib. (I'm sure it is off-topic tho!) Mystical/sacred marriage, heiros gamos, I think however, belongs between Christ and the lower Sophia, ie: Mary Magdalene--not Mary Virgin.

Chili · 07-19-2004, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

Where are you getting this stuff? Is it in some catholic catechism somewhere?

Clivedurdle, I like the cut of your jib. (I'm sure it is off-topic tho!) Mystical/sacred marriage, heiros gamos, I think however, belongs between Christ and the lower Sophia, ie: Mary Magdalene--not Mary Virgin.

Magdlyn? who is feeding you this kind of stuff?

Magdalene is Sophia? If Christ has a mystical marriage with the lower Magdalene we are sure to have a failed divine comedy because there is nothing divine about Magdalene. I believe that Mary and Sophia are equal and I really don't know where you get the idea of a lower Sophia.

abe smith · 07-19-2004, 07:07 AM

Is chili Amos? It never seemed likely that Amos wd be gone from here for long. Hi, Amos?

Magdlyn · 07-19-2004, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Magdlyn? who is feeding you this kind of stuff?

I am feeding myself from a broad range of sources. Mostly Gnostic gospels from Nag Hammadi (and interpretations of same by authors such as Pagels and Jung).

I didn't ask you where your info was coming from to be snarky. I honestly wanted to know where the idea of the spirit/Mary/something to do with Purgatory is sourced from. I thought you might rec a book or website.

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07-19-2004, 05:00 AM	#15
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	Chili talks like Amos..........Another typical christian

07-19-2004, 07:07 AM	#19
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Is chili Amos? It never seemed likely that Amos wd be gone from here for long. Hi, Amos?

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