Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 02-28-2008, 11:55 AM

More than enough there though to start centuries of stories of persecution of mathematicians!

(And was Rome ever at Peace?)

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/1997/97.03.32.html

Ben C Smith · 02-28-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Archimedes was reportedly a casualty of war, not a victim of peacetime persecution for his beliefs.

Ah, Archimedes. I just love the whole trick with polished shields. (This is a link to a blog entry with 11 comments, all posted by Anonymous, all deleted. Not sure I have ever seen that before.)

Ben.

Clivedurdle · 02-28-2008, 12:04 PM

It seems the Romans only won because of treachery.

Not only did Archimedes have solar weaponry setting fire to everything, he had also set up catapaults and lifts to cover everywhere in the harbour in a deadly continuing barrage!

And invented calculus!

(Oh and Roger these are not crank claims, unlike ones for example about the Trinity!)

http://www.archimedespalimpsest.org/

Clivedurdle · 02-28-2008, 12:08 PM

Starting a fire on a ship is an ancient tactic of war. They would have assisted with pitch.

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Medieval/warfare.htm

Clivedurdle · 02-28-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

The third defense that the church used against the Gnostics and syncretistic and charismatic movements within the church was the office of bishop, which became legitimized through the concept of apostolic succession. The mandate for missions, the defense against prophecy, the polemics with Gnosticism and other alternative versions of Christianity, the persecution of the church, and, not least of all, management of church discipline allowed the monarchical episcopacy to emerge in the early centuries. The bishop, as leader of the eucharistic worship service, as teacher, and as curer of souls, became the chief shepherd of the church and was considered its representative.

Stories of persecution would seem to have a political rationale to establish the Bishopric.

http://www.britannica.com/bps/home#t...20Encyclopedia

Ben C Smith · 02-28-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Starting a fire on a ship is an ancient tactic of war. They would have assisted with pitch.

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Medieval/warfare.htm

Pitch, naphtha, quicklime... ancient warfare was not all hoplites on the line and ships ramming each other!

Ben.

Minimalist · 02-28-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

It seems the Romans only won because of treachery.

Most towns were taken by treachery of one sort or another. There was always someone in the town who thought that things might go a little better if the place was not stormed and sacked and who was willing to open a gate.

Read Livy for innumerable examples of this.

Minimalist · 02-28-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Druidism was not just a British phenomena but a European religion.

Judaism and then Paganism are further examples.

Druidic priests seemed to be deeply involved in the revolts following the Roman occupation of Britain. Had they won, they would be regarded as heroes.

But they lost.

The Romans were quite tolerant of Judaism until Caligula and even there the crisis was averted by Caligula's timely demise. Things did go downhill from there, though. Under Augustus and Tiberius the Jews were exempt from having to swear to Roman gods.

The "pagans" were persecuted by Christians.

Clivedurdle · 02-29-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

The "pagans" were persecuted by Christians.

No, by the Roman Empire that then was xian. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

mountainman · 03-05-2008, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimalist

I suppose what I am asking is, are you restricting your inquiry to the East because that is where the texts have been found?

Hey Minimalist,

The East was Constantine's final conquest, and was achieved
after he already had the western empire secured c.312 CE.
During the period 312-324 CE IMO he ordered the forgery of
the new testament texts and their associated pseudo-history
in a great expectation that he would become supreme.

The East held the ancient traditions, metaphorically like
the ancient obelisk at the temple of Karnack, which had
stood for 1600 years, but which Constantine pulled down
and left to lie on the ground. COnstantine wanted the
riches and the gold, and the power and the glory, and
the eastern empire was ripe with all these things.

He implemented his new religion, and sacked the ancient
religion's temples and riches. But there was resistance.
We need to understand the methods and evidence of
this resistance. This starts with the words of Arius.

Need I repeat them?

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

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02-28-2008, 11:55 AM	#81
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	More than enough there though to start centuries of stories of persecution of mathematicians! (And was Rome ever at Peace?) http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/1997/97.03.32.html

02-28-2008, 12:04 PM	#83
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	It seems the Romans only won because of treachery. Not only did Archimedes have solar weaponry setting fire to everything, he had also set up catapaults and lifts to cover everywhere in the harbour in a deadly continuing barrage! And invented calculus! (Oh and Roger these are not crank claims, unlike ones for example about the Trinity!) http://www.archimedespalimpsest.org/

02-28-2008, 12:08 PM	#84
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Starting a fire on a ship is an ancient tactic of war. They would have assisted with pitch. http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Medieval/warfare.htm

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