Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Starboy · 06-04-2004, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishbrutha

Starboy you're hilarious. "Supernatural religion". All religion assume the supernatural. The only people who don't are atheists. The non-religious. You speak as if it's completely absurd that religious people would believe that the miraculous can occur. You also seem to imply that the miraculous is impossible. I don't mean that you think the miraculous didn't happen, you think it's impossible. We should have that discussion at some point. 'cuz otherwise we're going to be talking in circles, with my assumptions painting you as irrelevant to the discussion of Noah's historicity, and your assumptions painting me irrelevant to history.

Brutha, you need to get out more. Ever heard of Buddhists? Unless you want to contend that a religion that is much older than Christianity is not a religion there is one example of a religion that is not supernatural. If you further investigate Buddhism you will find that among all religions it is anomalous. Over its history there have virtually no wars fought in the name of Buddha. How about that, a religion not based on the supernatural that has an active ingredient.

As for “miraculous�?, it is not a phenomenon it is an explanation. In other words there is nothing that is a miracle; the word miracle is the religious term used to explain an event or thing that religious people don’t understand. It is ignorance parading as knowledge. If a global flood were perfectly understandable it would not have to be called a miracle. So it is not that miraculous is impossible, it is that the term miraculous is a deceit that allows people to pretend that they know something that they don’t.

Starboy

jdlongmire · 06-04-2004, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starboy

Brutha, you need to get out more. Ever heard of Buddhists? Unless you want to contend that a religion that is much older than Christianity is not a religion there is one example of a religion that is not supernatural. If you further investigate Buddhism you will find that among all religions it is anomalous. Over its history there have virtually no wars fought in the name of Buddha. How about that, a religion not based on the supernatural that has an active ingredient.

As for “miraculous�?, it is not a phenomenon it is an explanation. In other words there is nothing that is a miracle; the word miracle is the religious term used to explain an event or thing that religious people don’t understand. It is ignorance parading as knowledge. If a global flood were perfectly understandable it would not have to be called a miracle. So it is not that miraculous is impossible, it is that the term miraculous is a deceit that allows people to pretend that they know something that they don’t.

Starboy

This is not supernatural belief?

def:a. 1. Being beyond, or exceeding, the power or laws of nature; miraculous.

Quote:

After we die our very subtle mind leaves our body and enters the intermediate state, or 'bardo' in Tibetan. In this subtle dream-like state we experience many different visions that arise from the karmic potentials that were activated at the time of our death. These visions may be pleasant or terrifying depending on the karma that ripens. Once these karmic seeds have fully ripened they impel us to take rebirth without choice.

It is important to understand that as ordinary samsaric beings we do not choose our rebirth but are reborn solely in accordance with our karma. If good karma ripens we are reborn in a fortunate state, either as a human or a god, but if negative karma ripens we are reborn in a lower state, as an animal, a hungry ghost, or a hell being. It is as if we are blown to our future lives by the winds of our karma, sometimes ending up in higher rebirths, sometimes in lower rebirths.

http://www.aboutbuddhism.org/Buddhism-beliefs.htm

and...

Quote:

Some today claim that Buddhism is a uniquely pacifistic religion, but this claim is plausible only to those unfamiliar with the history of holy war in Buddhism. Japan offers the most obvious example, with its notorious Buddhist sohei (warrior-monks) and the Buddhist-based war-code of Bushido. What we today know in the West as the “martial arts�? derive from Japanese systems of combat steeped in Zen Buddhism. Their ultimate source, however, was India, from whence the legendary Indian Buddhist monk Bodhidharma (died 527) introduced Indo-Buddhist martial arts to the Shao-lin temple in China. The rebellion against Mongol domination of China in 1367 was led by the “White Lotus�? sect of Buddhism, whose followers believed themselves to be engaged in an apocalyptic war preparing the way for the imminent advent of Maitreya, the future Buddha who would usher in an era of peace and justice.

Millenarian religious movements occasionally engaged in sacred rebellion in China up through the early twentieth century, most notably during the Boxer Rebellion of 1900 and in the utopian Taiping rebellion (1850-1864), which in some ways was a precursor to the politico-millenarian Marxist movement of Mao Tsetung. Today, the fourteenth Dalai Lama is rightly renowned as an activist for compassion and non-violence, for which he won the Nobel Peace prize in 1989. What is less well-known is that his early predecessor, the fifth Dalai Lama, Nag-dban-rgya-mtsho (1617-1682), became ruler of Tibet not through offering an example of compassion, but by leading a holy war against his rivals, with the aid of the recently converted Buddhist Mongols led by Gushri Khan. Buddhism provided the ideology of sacred war throughout much of Southeast Asia as well.

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/ideas/030721unholy.html

...and...

Quote:

A careful examination of the Buddhist texts, however, particularly The Kalachakra Tantra literature, reveals both external and internal levels of battle that could easily be called "holy wars."

http://www.zen-forum.com/a26/b2002/c12/d1/e1258/z7

Starboy · 06-05-2004, 10:04 AM

Yes there are supernatural sects of Buddhism, but Buddha himself was against the idea. You see he thought that the idea of people treating each other with respect and regard was such a great idea that it didn't need to be adorned with gimmicks to fool stupid people. BTW, I am not a Buddhist, it is just that you have to respect a religion founded by a leader that actually cared about people and cared about them enough to not insult their intelligence. Also I said "virtually no wars" not "no wars". When you compare the vast number of battles, crusades, expulsions and persecutions done in the name of god compared to what has happened in the name of Buddha it is anomalously small. You see Buddha was actually a man of peace.

Starboy

trendkill · 06-05-2004, 07:17 PM

The attempts to make Buddhism look warlike seem a little forced. Especially with regard to Japan. Martial arts and the way of the warrior (bushido) are not the same as actual warfare; yes, the samurai were extremely violent, but their warfare was mostly political, not sectarian. I haven't heard of any religious-based warfare or persecution in Japan (before Christianity arrived there, that is).

atheist · 06-06-2004, 09:07 PM

I've received a reply from my email to the Affiliation of Christian Geologists, and it was a long one. Is anybody here interested in what was in it?

Newton Joseph · 06-06-2004, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

Some of us Christians even believe the earth is more than 10,000 years old!

ROUND OR FLAT?

Starboy · 06-06-2004, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheist

I've received a reply from my email to the Affiliation of Christian Geologists, and it was a long one. Is anybody here interested in what was in it?

Sure.

Starboy

Mageth · 06-07-2004, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newton Joseph

ROUND OR FLAT?

I'd add to that: orbiting the sun or as the center of the universe?

But note that, according to Irishbrutha, the earth is only probably orbiting the sun.

Faith · 06-07-2004, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newton Joseph

ROUND OR FLAT?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mageth

I'd add to that: orbiting the sun or as the center of the universe?

You guys are kidding, right?

Mageth · 06-07-2004, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

You guys are kidding, right?

I can't speak for Newton Joseph, but of course I was.

Everyone knows that Christians that still believe in a flat earth and/or a geocentric universe (and there are some, believe it or not) also believe the world was created in 4004 BC.

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06-05-2004, 10:04 AM	#53
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Yes there are supernatural sects of Buddhism, but Buddha himself was against the idea. You see he thought that the idea of people treating each other with respect and regard was such a great idea that it didn't need to be adorned with gimmicks to fool stupid people. BTW, I am not a Buddhist, it is just that you have to respect a religion founded by a leader that actually cared about people and cared about them enough to not insult their intelligence. Also I said "virtually no wars" not "no wars". When you compare the vast number of battles, crusades, expulsions and persecutions done in the name of god compared to what has happened in the name of Buddha it is anomalously small. You see Buddha was actually a man of peace. Starboy

06-05-2004, 07:17 PM	#54
trendkill Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 7,558	The attempts to make Buddhism look warlike seem a little forced. Especially with regard to Japan. Martial arts and the way of the warrior (bushido) are not the same as actual warfare; yes, the samurai were extremely violent, but their warfare was mostly political, not sectarian. I haven't heard of any religious-based warfare or persecution in Japan (before Christianity arrived there, that is).

06-06-2004, 09:07 PM	#55
atheist Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 371	I've received a reply from my email to the Affiliation of Christian Geologists, and it was a long one. Is anybody here interested in what was in it?

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