Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Timetospend · 08-28-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Delia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timetospend

My apologies to Fr. Gottisttot, but I wanted to use this note as an illustration of the lack of efficacy in countering contradictions as pertaining to belief in God....

First, let's look at the three references that Fr. Gottisttot provides:
Matt 12:30a
30 Whoever is not with me is against me,
NRSV
Mark 9:40
40 Whoever is not against us is for us.
NRSV
Luke 9:50
But Jesus said to him, "Do not stop him; for whoever is not against you is for you."
NRSV

While originally I did not intent to comment on any of these most-liked "contradictions," the answer to this one is relatively simple. Although a little most complex in language than in the original post, the words of these can be fulfilled rigorously without contradiction if all humanity can be divided into two camps:
-Those who are for Jesus
-Those who are against Jesus.
For what it is worth, my take on these verses is that it proposes null set of people who are partially with Jesus and partially against him.

Yet your take on these verses suffers from the same problems as the verses themselves: you dismiss the set of people who have no opinion about Jesus at all. That's where the contradiction applies. According to the first reference (Matthew 12:30a), the indifferent person is against Jesus, by virtue of the fact that he is not for Jesus. But by the second reference (Mark 9:40), the indifferent person is simultaneously for Jesus, since an indifferent person qualifies as someone who is not against Jesus.

Sorry, I merely take the verses for what they are. Per these, the lukewarm person is not for Jesus, and the lukewarm person is against him. You are attempting to interpret these verses in a way that Jesus never, ever uses as stated in the gospels.
Luke 14:27-28
27 Whoever does not carry the cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
NRSV
No conpromise is possible, even if we would like for it to be so.

Thanks,

Johnny Skeptic · 08-28-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timetospend

What do you want from the Christian community who believe that the Bible is inerrant?

What I want all inerrantists to do is to go to the GRD Forum and participate in the thread that is titled "God is corrupt." I chose that thread because inerrantists believe that God inspired and preserved the originals because he has good character. If inerrantists cannot reasonably prove that God has good character, then they do have not a reasonable basis for claiming that God would want to inspire and preserve the originals.

By the way, an evil, amoral, or mentally incompetent God could easily inspire and preserve texts if he wanted to. Even if God inspired and preserved the originals, that does not necessarily mean that he has good character, only that he has power. It appears that the bottom line issue is God's character, the issue upon which all other issues depend.

angelo · 08-29-2007, 05:00 AM

The best known contradiction must surely be; in the beginning God created the earth and the heavens. :Cheeky:

JennyRogers · 08-30-2007, 02:05 PM

My personal favorite is a three-way:

"For the Lord, whose name is jealous, is a jealous God."—Exodus 34:14
"God is love." -- 1 John 4:16
"Love is not jealous." -- 1 Corinthians 13:4

Speaking of which, I saw a great t-shirt recently that read, "I'm not alone - I'm 2 people short of a 3-way."

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-29-2007, 05:00 AM	#103
angelo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 5,706	The best known contradiction must surely be; in the beginning God created the earth and the heavens. :Cheeky:

08-30-2007, 02:05 PM	#104
JennyRogers Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: United States Posts: 91	My personal favorite is a three-way: "For the Lord, whose name is jealous, is a jealous God."—Exodus 34:14 "God is love." -- 1 John 4:16 "Love is not jealous." -- 1 Corinthians 13:4 Speaking of which, I saw a great t-shirt recently that read, "I'm not alone - I'm 2 people short of a 3-way."

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.