UncleJim

By reading them. If an idea is based in reality then it is true.
No.
The issue is: "is what the idea represents true." Ideas that are true represent what is real; that is they represent some aspect in, of or about reality.

It is not proper to claim that ideas create reality (or that they can identify what "should" be true); i.e., you cannot validly say "this is my idea about what should be." It is only possible to discover what is true and then evaluate the proposed idea against that. If the idea does not represent some aspect of reality it is false and ought to be adjusted until it does match what is true.

Juma

But since what people say is part of the real world so then rationality is in part dependent on what people say.

UncleJim

Would you call this a rational statement?

Morgana

I don't think anyone can be completely free of "brainwashing". Everyone will have acquired some beliefs and views before they acquired reason. Even if your parents were very careful to teach you to question everything and to make your own rational decisions, you will still have the belief that rational decisions are a good way to guide your life.

At heart, we all have axioms from which we derive other beliefs:
What my senses tell me is usually true (although my interpretation may be faulty).
I should have empathy for other people.
I should behave rationally.

It's hard to say that I arrived at these ideas rationally and consciously, although I do have rational conscious justifications for all of them.

Peter Kirby

I believe millions of things, and I am hardly conscious of why I believe half of them. Any explanation of this multitude of ideas would be after-the-fact evaluation. I say no strongly!

kind thoughts,
Peter Kirby

FreeThinker

Believing in Jeahovah/Jessus/Alah tales is OBVIOUS as irrational as believing in Zeus, but why 90 % of Americans believe in the first myth while dissmising the later myth as mythology. Are they all idiots or are they willingly self-decieving themselves. Probably the later, although there are many of the first, especially among inbreds in the bible belt. Willing self-deception about "pie in the sky" is also called "leap of faith", and I know personally many extraordinary intelligent people ( including a distingushed neuroscientist who was making many silly references to a "creator" in his lecture) who made just such a leap of faith. Did they made the leap consciously. Probably yes. But what was the motivation behind such a irrational belief ? Fear of death, fear of our animal nature, seeking parental approval, etc.. the motivation is often hiden. Although many know about it but make the leap of faith anyway for the comfort sake. In one sense our values of justice, fear of death and hopes for the future have a genetic origin so while on the surface we make beliefs and hold values willingly, ultimately the believes and values we hold have evolutionary roots like VALUE OF HONESTY = CHEATERS OFTEN LOOSE in evolutionary terms, especially in the small tribes; BELIEF IN LIFE AFTER DEATH = WE'D LIKE TO PROPOGATE OUR GENES even when we die; VALUE OF ALTRUISM = RECEPROCICAL ALTRUISM serves sort of an insurance for hard times; BELIEF THAT WE ARE SONS OF THE GOD = WE'D LIKE TO HAVE GENETIC CONNECTIONS with the greatest chief to get best mates etc...

Jay GW

Isn't this a tautology? Ideas are true because they're real, reality is what true ideas represent.....

What about justice, fairness and equality? Are those based in reality?

So people naturally try to justify the ideas they already hold? Cultures continue because of this.

jayG60

After some thought, I checked Neutral/Maybe, although that's not what I truly believe. I probably should have checked Somewhat Agree. Some of my beliefs and values are the result of conscious choice, but I'm certain not all of them are. We're bombarded constantly from the moment we're born by all kinds of subtle and not-sl-subtle 'brainwashing' and some of it is bound to soak into our subconscious. However, since I've spent most of my life having my brain scrubbed to believe in the christian way of salvation and everlasting life, yet rejected it when I was around 6 years old, I have to say that brainwashing doesn't always work and at least some of my beliefs are the result of conscious thought and choice. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

UncleJim

You really do need to include the person's name who you are quoting.
Sure.
Yes.

Jay GW

There's no way to know how much information is being absorbed under or outside your awareness, is there?