FathomFFI

Ummm ... "religion" is the "superstition?" Has that resonated with you at all?

I suppose you are quite unaware of how ridiculous your statement is when you put it into the context that we would then have Tacitus writing about how Pontius Pilate crucified a superstition?

What do you suppose Pilate did? Did he write this superstition down on a piece of paper, and have this piece of paper drag a cross through Jerusalem while being whipped by Romans?

So this piece of paper with "superstition" written on it got nailed to the cross, ya think?

You Jesus Mythers are astounding, I must say.

:rolling:

jules?

Hey everyone, lets chill ! anyway could we try going from the ground up. let me demonstrate;

Tacitus is recording a historical event- Jews during Nero's reign are anti-social in Rome telling everyone that Rome will burn. The end is near and their messiah will come and destroy the evil empire. We don't like fundys telling us how doomed we are and neither were Romans. Rome did burn [as it had done on other occasions] and Nero blamed the apocalyptic nutters for political reasons and had them crucified, torched and savaged as punishment. It evidently helped in that fundies were less vocal in later history.

the decades came and went and Tacitus wrote up the event.

He would have repeated the history mentioned above but the key element is the apocalyptic messiah becoming a victim of Pilate. in fact it is a few words.

This is the issue, not the history of Nero's persecution. It could have been slipped in it could relate to any number of wannabe messiahs executed for revolution. it seems assumptions are the rage. 'christians' [and I do not know what the original Latin is] are not specific followers of Jesus, we know from Paul, Justyn etc that 'christian' is a generic term for all those who believed in a returning messiah, whether radical Jew or convert.

So what is the likelihood that the troublesome Jews / Jewish converts proclaiming the end of the world and that Rome would BURN would all be followers of Paul or even of the Jerusalem church. I don't know.

Nor do i know if a later scribe helpfully filled in a few details that tacitus was 'unaware' of or the number of messianic revolutionaries nailed up by Pilate. I am just curious to understand why others are so certain.

Jules

FathomFFI

One word.

Evidence?

Another Messiah named Christus whom the Christians were named after was crucified by Pontius Pilate in Judea circa AD 33?

All the above qualifications must be met with evidence. I doubt it with convince the hard-core Jesus mythers, but you must understand that just this question alone is totally insurmountable when attempting to distinguish the Christus mentioned by Tacitus from Jesus.

patcleaver

Can't your read what I wrote.

Tacitus said that Christian beliefs are superstition. Tacitus says that its a superstition that "Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate". He says its all a lie, and you say of course that Tacitus proved it from the Roman records. Then you say that Pliny also said that Christianity is a superstition, a fiction, and he also had proof based on Roman records.

Tacitus says that its a superstition that Christus founded the religion.

Tacitus says its a superstition that Christus was executed in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate.

Pliny said that Christian beliefs are superstition, and you say that what Pliny said is true because he had access to Roman records.

Thank the FSM that the Romans kept such exact records so we could know that Christianity is just a fictitious superstition.

jules?

And where is there evidence that Christus died then?
Pilate was around between 26-36. Tiberius reigned from 14-37 thus encompassing Pilate's position. During that 10 year was there peace and no revolutionaries executed?

Evidence!
justyn mentions that followers of simon magus were also called christians.
There are numerous references to Jewish groups expecting versions of their messiah, include some groups who expected a totally cosmic one, would you like a few links?


reigned from 41-54 indicates that a large number of Jews were kicking up a fuss prior to Nero and no mention of who Chrestus was.

sorry what evidence would you like. are you disputing that the critics problem with the text is only with the one line that concerns Pilate?

FathomFFI

And you can't understand that Tacitus says no such thing?

Great, another poster boy for Team FFI's concept of what a Jesus Myther is.

FathomFFI

Do any of those assertions answer the question of "Another Messiah named Christus whom the Christians were named after was crucified by Pontius Pilate in Judea circa AD 33?"

None even approach it. You have offered no evidence to counter anything in the question.

And this proves what about the Tacitus writing? :huh:

jules?

Could you be more specific on what evidence you require?

justyn does mention other christians who did not follow Jesus, do you dispute this?

FathomFFI

Why do I even need to dispute it? The problem you will have, and cannot surmount, is that fact that none of your assertions address the evidence in the question I asked.

Chrestus in Rome who instigates disturbances by the Jews is the Christ whom some Christians follow?

Do you have evidence of this?

The Christians who Justyn mention are the ones who followed Christus who was executed in Judea by Pontius Pilate in circa AD 33?

Do you have evidence of this?

jules?

Lets first deal with the messiah executed by Pilate. [assuming it genuine for arguments sake]

Where is there any data to suggest this happened circa 33?