Gwalcmai

It came to me from a newsletter subscription I get from his site every so often. Sorry, I don't have a link.

Equinox

Spong has some good points here, as do others on this thread. Specifically-

I agree with spong that there are many details from the Gospels that pass the criteria of dissimilarity, and suggest that Jesus actually existed. Spong mentions some of these, such as Nazareth, the crucifixion, John the Baptist, etc. Some others I find significant are the idea that he was baptized by John (normally a spiritually superior baptizes an inferior), that he was betrayed by one of his own followers, that he dissed gentiles in the “crumbs to dogs” parable, etc.

In all of those cases, the explanation that a real person existed and did these embarrassing things seems the most likely explanation to me. The grandest miracles are indeed probably made up, but the mistakes could be a clue that some human did do some of these things.

I also agree with the many people on this thread who have pointed out the faulty reliance on Paul, on 4-10 years, etc, in Spong’s article. Also, as some here know, I’m as non-christian as they come. My view that there probably was some bloke who said some things that got him in trouble is certainly not an endorsement of the (canonical or non-canonical) gospel accounts.

Have a fun turkey day, or a turduken day-

-Equinox

spamandham

There are alternative explanations for each of these.

Having Jesus come from Nazareth is the result of a transliteration error. The writer of the original Mark transliterated "Nazarite" from the OT prophecy and thought it meant "someone from Nazareth". So his Jesus came from Nazareth. Later Christians figured out the Messiah was supposed to have come from Bethlehem and so they tacked on a bogus birth story.

I have seen similar explanations for the crucifixion, the blending of John the Baptist into the story, etc. Most of this results from inventing a story around Isaiah 53 and throwing in some astrological symbolism and various errors that later writers had to tack on new pieces of the story to whitewash.

Equinox

Spamandham wrote:
Yes. The one you posted for Nazareth is decent. I haven't heard good ones for Judas (the idea that Jesus didn't even have devotion from all of his 12 disciples), and others. However, the full discussion is off topic and is beyond what I have time for. Overall, I think your position is plausible, and appreciate the response. Thanks, and have a good turkey day-

Equinox