Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Kosh · 12-26-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

communism,fascism,monarchy,democracy,etc.....just because there are competing revelations does not mean that all are equal or that all are reliable. Again, no smoking gun errors. Many debates, but no smoking guns.ONe would think that a book of 66 books supposedly written by men without any outside revelation over thousands of years would have at least one undebatable smoking gun error. And, it is not a change of subject, it is the only rational question to someoen who says there is no God but feigns concern for those who do!!!

Oh, the "Why don't you ignore all this if you don't believe it?" fallacy? Is that what you're getting at?

Simple. I know math. I know that 1+1 is 2. If an organization came into town that wanted to invite my kids to a tent and start teaching them that 1+1=3, you bet I'd pay attention and do my best to fight it. And that is exactly why all we atheists are here. We're keeping ourselves educated against the pervasive attempts to constantly tell our kids something is true when we have good evidence that it is not.

Are we done that now?

Good. So I ask you, if Christianity must be true because millions of people believe it and it would be too big for a conspiracy (your own words)... then why does not the same apply to Mormonism or Islam?

Please try to answer the question and not divert it.

Hnefi · 12-26-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

Again, no smoking gun errors. Many debates, but no smoking guns.ONe would think that a book of 66 books supposedly written by men without any outside revelation over thousands of years would have at least one undebatable smoking gun error.

I guess internal inconsistencies don't count?

Some examples from skepticsannotatedbible.com:

How long did Noah's flood last?

Quote:

Gen.7:17
"And the flood was forty days upon the earth."
Gen.7:24
"And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days."

How many animals did Noah bring to the ark?

Quote:

Gen.7:8, 9, 15
"Of clean beast and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowl ... there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God commanded Noah."

Gen.7:2
"Of every clean beast thou shalt take thee by sevens, the male and his female."

There are hundreds more examples of internal inconsistencies, failed prophesies, scientific absurdities, historical inaccuracies and the like. I'll be happy to provide more examples upon request.

Diogenes the Cynic · 12-26-2005, 12:40 PM

Mata-
How old is the earth?
How did Judas die?
Is the sky a solid dome?
When was Jesus born?

mata leao · 12-26-2005, 12:47 PM

no smoking guns my friends, none! every one of these is asked and answered and there is a plausible theodicy for all of them. And on top of that, none of these are material, none change the core meaning of the Bible. ask a question with some real, earth shaking to the core significance!

Diogenes the Cynic · 12-26-2005, 12:52 PM

What kind of defense is that? If you have such great answers. let's hear them.

How do you explain the fact that the Israelites were never enslaved in Egypt, never escaped in an Exodus, never wandered in the Sinai and never conquered Canaan? These are some very specific historical claims made by the Bible and they are all demonstrably false.

The Bible contains more smoking guns than a Civil War movie.

Viti · 12-26-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

no smoking guns my friends, none!

Just because you refuse to accept the absurdities as absurd, and deny "smoking guns" doesn't mean they aren't there.

Quote:

every one of these is asked and answered and there is a plausible theodicy for all of them. And on top of that, none of these are material, none change the core meaning of the Bible. ask a question with some real, earth shaking to the core significance!

Do you have the answers? Why not post them as actual responses rather than just telling us that answers exist somewhere? How are we to know what you subjectively consider significant, Earth shaking, or "core"? Where did you learn to debate?

Hnefi · 12-26-2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

no smoking guns my friends, none!

Wow. Last time I was involved in a discussion where the other person just held his hands over his ears and started shouting "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" was in preschool. I didn't think it'd ever happen again.

Turns out I was wrong.

Apikorus · 12-26-2005, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

I have studied the book of mormon, the Koran, etc ,ect, and I find them to be in error.

Could you please provide us with an example of an error in the Qur'an?

Djugashvillain · 12-26-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Could you please provide us with an example of an error in the Qur'an?

I second this. And they must "change the core meaning" and have a "real, earth shaking to the core significance!"

Apikorus · 12-26-2005, 02:16 PM

I'd settle for any provable error. In defending the Qur'an, I will use time-honored hermeneutical methods of Christian fundamentalists.

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12-26-2005, 12:40 PM	#63
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	Mata- How old is the earth? How did Judas die? Is the sky a solid dome? When was Jesus born?

12-26-2005, 12:47 PM	#64
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	no smoking guns my friends, none! every one of these is asked and answered and there is a plausible theodicy for all of them. And on top of that, none of these are material, none change the core meaning of the Bible. ask a question with some real, earth shaking to the core significance!

12-26-2005, 12:52 PM	#65
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	What kind of defense is that? If you have such great answers. let's hear them. How do you explain the fact that the Israelites were never enslaved in Egypt, never escaped in an Exodus, never wandered in the Sinai and never conquered Canaan? These are some very specific historical claims made by the Bible and they are all demonstrably false. The Bible contains more smoking guns than a Civil War movie.

12-26-2005, 02:16 PM	#70
Apikorus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,396	I'd settle for any provable error. In defending the Qur'an, I will use time-honored hermeneutical methods of Christian fundamentalists.

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