Godless Wonder

In this thread
focused48 wrote: I've know people who think this is what Hell is. But, where does this idea come from? Looking through the Bible, I can't see a justification for it.

For example:
Also, this seems to belie the "hell is locked from the inside" line that people toss about.

So where does this idea that Hell is "mere separation from God" come from? It doesn't appear to be what Jesus thought, according to the Bible. I think I made a thread on this before, but I couldn't find it. I didn't get much response previously, so I thought I'd try again.

Sarpedon

What I don't understand, is how does being separated from god differ from life on earth now? I mean the man never calls, never writes, never visits...

Amos

No he does and many will say that they have been called, feel favored and so on. The problem begins when they have been called and then forsaken: Gal.5:4 "any of you who seek justification in the law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from Gods favor." First called and then left behind is hell on earth.

liamo

Well, the Pope says it is so. Therefore it must be true...
source

Kaiser_Soze

Also it's a more palatable way to interpret/reinterpret the bible - after all, the burning lake malarkey is pretty... well... hellish!

It seems that many (xian) theists are endeavouring to make the whole thing more acceptable... murder, rape, slavery, anti-gay, women as chattels, etc are all now often downplayed or simply ignored.

The new, improved Christian PC Faith{tm}...

BadBadBad

It definitely seems like more than that to me.

Mt 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This concept of hell being just separate from God doesn't make much sense. What would be the purpose of existence? If we're just separate from God, why does God feel the need to destroy our soul eternally? Eternal torment seems to be the key phrase here. So whether it's actually fire or physical gnashing of teeth, The Bible clearly tells that there is more to hell than simply a lack of the goodness of God.

Amlodhi

And you have pretty well encompassed the entire spectrum of the evolution of religious doctrine in this remark.

As Doctor X has pointed out repeatedly with his example of the original practice of child sacrifice, religious commentary has and will continue to morph in response to the politically correct viewpoint de jour.

Namaste'

Amlodhi

NeoApostate

In my experience, it's from Christians who have examined the scriptures and realized that many of the 'hellish' descriptions are metaphors for torment and horror. They then begin to believe less in the traditional 'lake of fire and brimstone under the earth' kind of imagery that is associated with Hell. That doesn't remove the torment aspect - indeed the entire point is that if God cuts you off from his presense entirely, you will be in greater torment than you could imagine.

Look at the scriptures:

First, there isn't really a concept of Hell in the New Testament. Every time 'Hell' was rendered in the King James, it was a different word in the original Greek. (And Sheol in the Old Testament Hebrew). With that in mind, look at what Hell is in the New Testament:

Hades and Tartarus - these are Greek concepts. Someone studying religions and how they evolve would simply see it as Christianity borrowing from Greek Mythology, but for a Christian who refuses to believe this, it is easier to think that Jesus was refering to Hades not because it was a real place, but as a metaphor for the horrible torment of seperation from God.

Gehenna - a real place outside Jerusalem where trash was burned, and in the OT human sacrifices were done by the wicked Kings of Israel. Here Jesus it indeed using a metaphor, since he is refering to an everyday place. Christians who know the original text refered to Gehenna will have noticed this and realized it's not literal.

Lake of Fire in Revelation - This is more apt to be taken literally, and is probably the concept of the Christian Hell as it is taking more definate shape. However, Christians who favor the metaphor interpretion of Hell could easily point to how the majority of Revelation is comprised of metaphors, so it wouldn't be a leap to think the Lake of Fire is only a metaphor for the pain and torment of seperation from God for eternity.

When I was a Christian I leaned more toward this kind of approach to Hell the more I read and studied the scriptures.

EDIT:
For examples, look at the verses that have already been quoted in this thread:

The Hell here is Hades. Furthermore, this is part of a parable Jesus is telling his disciples, further indicating that it could be metaphorical.

Now, it is very probable that whoever wrote this did think that an evil person would literally go to Hades and burn when they died, but remember a Christian who knows he refers to Hades and refuses to believe that Christianity is influeced or evolved from other religions will probably choose to see this as a metaphor.

Here Hell is Gehenna. As already mentioned, in context this seems to obviously be a metaphor, since Gehenna is a real place - the Valley of Hinnom.

If this is a literal reference to 'Hell', then that would indicate that someone who is burned alive would have their soul destroyed. Furthermore, I wouldn't mind going to Hell at all, since it is no longer used for burning and has very beautiful hills (probably fertile from all the trash over the years... I saw some images of it on TV during a special on the History Channel.)

southernhybrid

I have a different perspective on this. Religion doesn't have to make sense and as atheists we see the evidence that it's man made. If man is starting to look at the Xian beliefs with a more critical eye than that is a type of progress in itself. If man makes his religion more tolerant and gentle, we all benefit. The fact that people are questioning and at times deleting the worst aspects of their religions is a good thing.

Most people are too insecure and/or emotionally attached to their beliefs to just give them all up. If they have a need for religion, let it be for a religion that has a more positive or at least less harmful and divisive message. Let Xians reinvent their religion to be something less hurtful than the original message was. Not everything has to be so black and white. Truth will always be somewhat subjective when it comes to understanding our human experience. I would much rather see this type of progress being made, than having people continue to follow their dogma without any critical thinking at all.

Mediancat

For what it's worth, it's mentioned in Dante's Divine Comedy, although not for every person not in heaven. The virtuous pagans who never had a chance to hear about Jesus (Achilles, Socrates, etc) and the unbaptized infants are in hell, but they're in the first circle where their only punishment is that they're not in heaven and they have no shot at getting there.

This is still a big deal to Dante, but it beats the punishments handed down in circles below.

Rob aka Mediancat