angelo

If the above is correct it means more ammunition for the mythcists. It proves what R. G. Price says in his book, Jesus, A Very Jewish Myth is closer to the truth than is admitted by historicist. That the whole thing is invented from the Jewish scriptures.

maryhelena

Yes, to my way of thinking, if the gospel of John is established as the earliest of the gospels - well, the flood gates could well open....

aa5874

But, although the Jesus story was primarily invented from Jewish Scripture, the end-product was not Jewish at all.

The Jesus Christ of the NT was not at all like the Messiah called Simon BarCocheba.

It would appear that when outsiders or non-Jews interpreted the Jewish scripture they produced a non-historical Messiah called Jesus Christ, of whom no historical records can be found, but when the Jews interpreted their own scriptures they got a historical Messish called Simon Bar Cocheba with artifacts or coins as a historical witness to Simon's historicity.

The inventors of Jesus Christ produced a blasphemer and false prophet who despised the Jewish authorities and whose followers would claim that Jesus Christ was come or was raised from the dead to make all the Laws of God including circumcision obsolete. The Jews did not accept such a Messiah although it was primarily derived from Jewish scripture.

angelo

In the Jewish tradition, before Christianity made it's appearance there was no expectation of a suffering messiah.
Jewish documents written around the time of the supposed Jesus, none expect the messiah to die and then be resurrected as Jesus supposedly was for the sins of others.
In other words, in none of the expectations was he anything like Jesus. That's the main reason he was rejected by the Jews. Reason why all the evangelists tried to place the Jews in a bad light while trying to place the gentiles and including Romans in a better light. Blaming the Jews for his death has for 2000 years caused untold misery to the Jews, those were the consequences of the invention of this sordid tale.

The Jewish expectation was for a deliverer from the Roman yolk. A deliverer who would restore the fantasy kingdom of David, and make the Jews rulers over all nations under one god who would reside in the temple in Jerusalem.

Steven Carr

What?

The Jews rejected Jesus because he was dead?

Isn't this like arguing that Americans would never accept a dead person as President, and that is why they rejected Adlai Stevenson as President, and voted for Eisenhower instead....

To reject somebody as a Messiah because they were dead, you have to wait until they die.

So what was the real reason the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah?

Steven Carr

But the earliest mention of the death of Jesus says flat-out that the Jews killed Jesus and gives no hint of any Roman involvement.

1 Thessalonians 2 '....just as they did from the Judaeans, who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and who drove us out, and are not pleasing to God and against all people, hindering us to speak to the nations so that they may be saved, so as always to fill up their sins. But wrath has come on them at last.'

angelo

The Jewish messiah was not supposed to die. He was supposed to usher in the kingdom of god. Crush all who opposed the Jews and make Jerusalem the capital of the then known world. Jesus failed on all counts.

Steven Carr

Let's try this again.

Did Jesus oppose the Romans or not?


Why did the Romans crucify Jesus if Jesus failed on all counts of opposing the Romans?


Why did Jews reject Jesus , before Jesus died, when Jesus was allegedly doing Messiah-like things, such as opposing the Romans, which got him crucifed by the Romans?


What did Jesus do to make his followers think of him as the Messiah, apart from die?

The standard historicist line is that the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah because he was dead, which is like claiming Americans voted for Eisenhower rather than Stevenson, because Stevenson was dead.

angelo

I should have added my above post is hypothetical. I don't believe there ever was an historical Jesus. He was an invention of Paul's for one, possibly others. Or a collection of many Jesus like characters who roamed the country side in those troubled times.

show_no_mercy

Are you suggesting that Jesus Barabbas was the historical Jesus?