Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 08-19-2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

"How old was Jesus when he died according to "John"?

Let us Examine gJohn for clues about the Age of the Johanine Jesus.

John 8:58 KJV

Quote:

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 8:56-57

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!

MaryHelena, LOOK, LOOK at the very NEXT VERSE. The Johanine Jesus was BEFORE Abraham.

Are you SO MYOPIC??? The Johanine Jesus told the same people who questioned his AGE that he was BEFORE Abraham.

John 8:58 KJV

Quote:

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

maryhelena · 08-19-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

"How old was Jesus when he died according to "John"?

Let us Examine gJohn for clues about the Age of the Johanine Jesus.

John 8:58 KJV

Quote:

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 8:56-57

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!

MaryHelena, LOOK, LOOK at the very NEXT VERSE. The Johanine Jesus was BEFORE Abraham.

Are you SO MYOPIC??? The Johanine Jesus told the same people who questioned his AGE that he was BEFORE Abraham.

John 8:58 KJV

Quote:

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!

aa5874 · 08-19-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

MaryHelena, LOOK, LOOK at the very NEXT VERSE. The Johanine Jesus was BEFORE Abraham.

Are you SO MYOPIC??? The Johanine Jesus told the same people who questioned his AGE that he was BEFORE Abraham.

John 8:58 KJV

Quote:

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!

OK, so the people QUESTION the age of the Johanine Jesus.

They Believe he could NOT have seen Abraham.

Now what did the Johanine Jesus say to them???

Quote:

BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

Tell me maryhelena??? When did Abraham live in Hebrew Scripture ???

It is most remarkable how you IGNORE the very verse that gives the clue of the AGE of the Johanine Jesus from the supposed mouth of Jesus himself.

Quote:

BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

The Johanine Jesus was MORE than 50 years old.

The Johanine Jesus was FROM the Beginning--Before Abraham.

Duvduv · 08-19-2012, 10:03 AM

It's interesting that such an expression "before Abraham was I am" cannot be rendered into Hebrew because the verb "to be " has no present imperfect form. Hebrew would have to use the word "live" or "exist." But it would sound awkward.

maryhelena · 08-19-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

MaryHelena, LOOK, LOOK at the very NEXT VERSE. The Johanine Jesus was BEFORE Abraham.

Are you SO MYOPIC??? The Johanine Jesus told the same people who questioned his AGE that he was BEFORE Abraham.

John 8:58 KJV

Quote:

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!

OK, so the people QUESTION the age of the Johanine Jesus.

They Believe he could NOT have seen Abraham.

Now what did the Johanine Jesus say to them???

Quote:

BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

Tell me maryhelena??? When did Abraham live in Hebrew Scripture ???

It is most remarkable how you IGNORE the very verse that gives the clue of the AGE of the Johanine Jesus from the supposed mouth of Jesus himself.

Quote:

BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

The Johanine Jesus was MORE than 50 years old.

The Johanine Jesus was FROM the Beginning--Before Abraham.

You seem to have missed this verse:

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

That's the gJohn storyline - from when the Word became flesh.....

John 8:56-57

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!

Not yet 50 years - in the flesh. That is the gJohn storyline of JC.

Deal with it!

aa5874 · 08-19-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

You seem to have missed this verse:

Quote:

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth....

Again, your claim is erroneous I did actually deal with the FACT that there is NO statement in gJohn when the WORD became Flesh.

Examine my statements from an earlier post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

....JOHN's Jesus was FROM the Beginning and was God the Creator who made everything who later became Flesh and was Crucified when Caiaphas was high Priest, Pilate was Governor...................

In gJohn there is NO date given when Jesus, God the Creator, the WORD was made Flesh but he was WITH GOD, was GOD, and FROM the Beginning and was Crucified when Caiaphas was High Priest and Pilate was Governor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

...That's the gJohn storyline - from when the Word became flesh.....

Again, your statement is in error. The Johanine Jesus storyline BEGINS BEFORE the WORD was made Flesh. gJohn BEGINS at John 1.1 NOT at John 1.14

The author CLEARLY Stated his Jesus EXISTED WITHOUT Flesh and was God the Creator and was From the Beginning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

Quote:

John 8:56-57

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!

Not yet 50 years - in the flesh. That is the gJohn storyline of JC.

Deal with it!

Now maryhelena, it is YOU who have MISSED John 8.57.

It is NOT a statement.

It is a QUESTION.

maryhelena, you have MISSED the QUESTION!!!!

It is a Question in the KJV

John 8:57 KJV---King James Version

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

It is a question in the ASV.

John 8:57 ASV---American Standard Version
The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

It is a question in the BBE
John 8:57 BBE---Bible in Basic English

Then the Jews said to him, You are not fifty years old; have you seen Abraham?

It is a question in the CEB
John 8:57 CEB---Common English Bible

"You aren't even 50 years old!" the Jewish opposition replied. "How can you say that you have seen Abraham?"

It is a question in the CJB
John 8:57 CJB--Complete Jewish Bible

"Why, you're not yet fifty years old," the Judeans replied, "and you have seen Avraham?"

And this is the ANSWER of the Johanine Jesus to the QUESTION.

John 8.58 Verily, Verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

The Johanine Jesus EXISTED BEFORE Abraham.

DEAL WITH the ANSWER from the Johanine Jesus.

maryhelena · 08-19-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

You seem to have missed this verse:

Quote:

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth....

Again, your claim is erroneous I did actually deal with the FACT that there is NO statement in gJohn when the WORD became Flesh.

Examine my statements from an earlier post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

....JOHN's Jesus was FROM the Beginning and was God the Creator who made everything who later became Flesh and was Crucified when Caiaphas was high Priest, Pilate was Governor...................

[i]color=red]In gJohn there is NO date given when Jesus, God the Creator, the WORD was made Flesh[/color] but he was WITH GOD, was GOD, and FROM the Beginning and was Crucified when Caiaphas was High Priest and Pilate was Governor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

...That's the gJohn storyline - from when the Word became flesh.....

Again, your statement is in error. The Johanine Jesus storyline BEGINS BEFORE the WORD was made Flesh. gJohn BEGINS at John 1.1 NOT at John 1.14

The author CLEARLY Stated his Jesus EXISTED WITHOUT Flesh and was God the Creator and was From the Beginning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

Quote:

John 8:56-57

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!

Not yet 50 years - in the flesh. That is the gJohn storyline of JC.

Deal with it!

Now maryhelena, it is YOU who have MISSED John 8.57.

It is NOT a statement.

It is a QUESTION.

maryhelena, you have MISSED the QUESTION!!!!

It is a Question in the KJV

John 8:57 KJV---King James Version

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

It is a question in the ASV.

John 8:57 ASV---American Standard Version
The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

It is a question in the BBE
John 8:57 BBE---Bible in Basic English

Then the Jews said to him, You are not fifty years old; have you seen Abraham?

It is a question in the CEB
John 8:57 CEB---Common English Bible

"You aren't even 50 years old!" the Jewish opposition replied. "How can you say that you have seen Abraham?"

It is a question in the CJB
John 8:57 CJB--Complete Jewish Bible

"Why, you're not yet fifty years old," the Judeans replied, "and you have seen Avraham?"

And this is the ANSWER of the Johanine Jesus to the QUESTION.

Verily, Verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

The Johanine Jesus EXISTED BEFORE Abraham.

Are you suggesting that the Johanine Jesus existed before Abraham in the flesh????

igsfly:

jdboy · 08-19-2012, 01:34 PM

Amazing that ireneaus explains that the number 50 refers to the age requirement for being a Master with disciples and yet he ignores what he just stated and claims they would've used the number 40 if jesus was in his 30's.

The jesus story is there to fulfill Daniel's prophecy "So we see that Daniel Chapter 9 appears to prophesy that the year in which Jesus would be put to death on the cross would be AD 33." http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gary.h....ept/xmas10.htm

Josephus noted that the temple destruction was fulfilling prophecy.

aa5874 · 08-19-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

And this is the ANSWER of the Johanine Jesus to the QUESTION.

Verily, Verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM

The Johanine Jesus EXISTED BEFORE Abraham.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

Are you suggesting that the Johanine Jesus existed before Abraham in the flesh????

igsfly:

Please, you seem to think that the LOGOS, God the Creator, was made Flesh.

gJohn is a Myth Fable of the LOGOS, God the Creator. And in the Myth Fable called gJohn Jesus the LOGOS was God and was with GOD from the Beginning.

Tell us maryhelena, when was the Johanine LOGOS, God the Creator, made Flesh in gJohn???

Tell us the TRUE HISTORY of God the LOGOS with his FLESH.

igsfly:

maryhelena · 08-19-2012, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Tell us the TRUE HISTORY of God the LOGOS with his FLESH.

'TRUE HISTORY' ??? - come off it aa - you know full well you are dealing with a story...and that story places JC in the time of Pilate - at which time it was said of him - in the story - that:

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham".

If you have trouble with that story - I'm afraid your on your own. Stories are stories - nothing you nor I can do to change that...

View Poll Results: How old was Jesus when he died according to "John"?
About 50 years	6	33.33%
About 30 years	4	22.22%
About 3,801 years, 11 months, 26 days, 6 hours, 6 minutes and 6 seconds	0	0%
About 15 billion years	2	11.11%
Don't know	1	5.56%
Whatever age spin says	3	16.67%
Almost as old as JW's jokes	2	11.11%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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08-19-2012, 10:03 AM	#44
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	It's interesting that such an expression "before Abraham was I am" cannot be rendered into Hebrew because the verb "to be " has no present imperfect form. Hebrew would have to use the word "live" or "exist." But it would sound awkward.

08-19-2012, 01:34 PM	#48
jdboy Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: NW United States Posts: 155	Amazing that ireneaus explains that the number 50 refers to the age requirement for being a Master with disciples and yet he ignores what he just stated and claims they would've used the number 40 if jesus was in his 30's. The jesus story is there to fulfill Daniel's prophecy "So we see that Daniel Chapter 9 appears to prophesy that the year in which Jesus would be put to death on the cross would be AD 33." http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gary.h....ept/xmas10.htm Josephus noted that the temple destruction was fulfilling prophecy.

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