Chris Weimer

I have no idea where you differed with me, except by adding theology to a atheological argument?

Magus55

He doesn't. Humanity causes 99% of all suffering.

John A. Broussard

Like the 76,000 killed, 1,000,000 homeless, probably another 30,000 scheduled to die from exposure and famine as a result of last week's earthquake.

C'mon Magus, your god causes incredible suffering with his use of malaria, the AIDS virus, the coming avian flu virus, floods, hurricanes, etc.

You can continue to say that god is just showing his love for us in this fashion, but you are just plain wrong if you are going to deny that all this happens.

diana

No one continues to touch this with a ten-foot pole, so I'll bring it into the discussion a third time:

1. If the order to "love" (as in "love one another") is about action and not the emotion behind it, then what do we make of the problems of "loving" God and "believing" in God? Is behaving as though we love God and believe in God sufficient?

2. Since lee stated that the command to to "love" God is a standard as opposed to a command, and thus something to strive toward (but not something we're honestly expected to achieve/adhere to), then are all the "commands" also "standards"?

d

John A. Broussard

1. is just the old faith vs. good works problem that has plagued Christians for centuries. Some say belief in god will lead to salvation. Others say good works are the way to go. Since god doesn't exist, it really doesn't make much difference which path a Christian chooses, especially since the secondary claim is that faith will inevitably lead to good works and good works will create faith.

2. is meaningless until "standard" is explained and clearly differentiated from "command".

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

Well, I meant that love is neither (essentially) a choice to do some good, nor a feeling, which is what I thought you and others were saying.

By way of reply, since I hold that love is not about action (see 1 Cor. 13), and I agree that love is not an emotion, then behaving as if we love God and believe in him is not sufficient. "Love comes from God," we read in 1 John, and also "we love because he first loved us." So the tack I would take on this would be to seek to know God, then I will know his love, and then respond with that love, and I cannot do this on my own, or with my own resources.

Yes, I think they are, and they are intended to discourage us! When we see how hopeless it is to meet the standard, then we will (as much as we may hate to do so!) try and ask for help.

I subscribe to the first point, and with some reservations (I don't think good works are the primary source of faith), also to the second point. Now if faith does lead to good works, then would this be evidence for some truth in this principle here? That also might be evidence for God...

Regards,
Lee

John A. Broussard

And your god has so repeatedly, through acts of genocide, shown his love for human kind, that it's little wonder that human beings have so successfully emulated your god's behavior.

I think it especially demonstrated god's love when he spared the virgin girls for the benefit of the Israelite warriors.

Your jealous, vengeful god is a great one to know in order to "know his love, and then respond with that love."