TedM

Thanks Pharoah. It is helpful.

Ok, but if 100% of all names are appropriate for the role that tells us absolutely nothing about whether the author deliberately chose it also, would you agree? As such, it makes sense to get an idea of the frequency as well as the level of appropriateness of the name in question as well as competing names.

Pharoah's recommended site says that Joshua means "the Lord is my salvation". That sounds less "Messiac" than a name that means "I am your salvation" or "Savior". One could argue that it is even less appropriate a name for the Christ than one of the common ones that means "gift from God", since "gift from God" is a meaning applied to the person, whereas "the Lord is my salvation" puts the act of salvation onto God, and not the person.

ted

Toto

During the James ossuary to-do, before the forgery had been established, there were calculations of the probability that "Ya'akov, son of Yosef, brother of Yeshua" could be tied to the Biblical Jesus son of Joseph brother of James. There are still some references around: from here

Huon

Philip is greek, Phil = friend, Hippos = horse, friend of horses.
Bartholomew hebrew or aramaïc.

TedM

Thanks. That's a good idea to look into frequency. Not that it matters since the inscription is likely fake, but I hope no one was concluding that on the above basis there was only a 1/20 chance that it was referring to THE James. I'd say more likely 99%, since it would be highly unusual to mention the person's brother--indicating that the brother was of great importance. No matter anyway...

ted

S.C.Carlson

Since it is a recent forgery, there's a 100% chance it was referring to THE James.

TedM

Yes, that would be the conclusion. It's nice to be able to forgoe calculations altogether for a change My 99% was suspending judgement on the case, and was based on the belief that brothers were rarely mentioned on ossuaries.

mdarus

I did not see anyone mention that Joshua (Hebrew) and Jesus (latinized from the Greek) are essentially the same name. They were common names. There seems to be little ammo here to conclude that "Jesus" was chosen to create the myth even though it fits the context. In the biblical context it had would have had the most influence to Joseph in his decision whether to support Mary or not. I am trying to imagine if other names would have been even more suspect like Elijah or David?

Anat

Another approach to the question of how common certain names were would be to see which names appear in written sources from the period (and how broadly would you define that?) You would need to consider variants in spelling and transliteration, though. Joseph can be Yosef, Yossei, Yosi, Jose etc. John is Yochanan. Simon is Shimon or Shimeon.

For instance, if you look at the Hasmonean family (2nd century BCE):
"[1] In those days arose Mattathias the son of John, the son of Simeon, a priest of the sons of Joarib, from Jerusalem, and dwelt in Modin.
[2] And he had five sons, Joannan, called Caddis:
[3] Simon; called Thassi:
[4] Judas, who was called Maccabeus:
[5] Eleazar, called Avaran: and Jonathan, whose surname was Apphus." (1Mac:2)

Mattathias = Matthew (means 'gift of God')
John, Joannan = Yochanan (means 'graces by God')
Simeon, Simon (hearkened?)
Judas = Judah, Yehuda (praised)
Elazar = Lazarus (God has helped)
Jonathan = Yonathan, Yehonathan (God has given)

I'm not sure about Joarib, because I can't remember the Hebrew spelling, but if it's Yehoyariv, then it would translate as 'God will fight'.

Or if you look at the Rabbis quoted in Pirkei Avoth - Ethics of the fathers, which has names of many Rabbis from 3rd century BCE to 3rd century CE - see Ethics of the Fathers for a translation or Pirke Avot Study for translation with footnotes, including biographical info.

Shimon (English equivalent Simon) (The Rightous, ben Shetach, ben Gamaliel, ben Natanel, ben Elazar, ben Zoma, ben Azzai and ben Yochai, ben Judah, ben Menasya - 10 different people)

Antigonus (of Socho)

Yosi (English - Joseph) (ben Yoezer of Tzeredah, ben Yochanan of Jerusalem, the Priest, father of Yishmael, bar Judah of Kefar ha-Bavli, ben Kisma - 6 people)

Yoezer (of Tzeredah - father of Yosi)

Yochanan (English John)(father of Yosi, ben Zakkai, ben Baroka, the sandal maker, ben Bag-Bag - 5 people)

Joshua (ben Perachyah, ben Chananiah, ben Levi - 3 people)

Perachyah

Nittai (the Arbelite)

Judah (ben Tabbai, the Prince, of Kefar ha-Bavli, ben Ilai, ben Teima, father of Shimon - 6 people)

Tabbai

Shemayah

Avtalion

Hillel

Shammai

Gamaliel (grandson of Hillel, son of Judah the Prince - 2 people, but in the same lineage)

Eliezer (Lazarus) (ben Hyrcanus, ben Jacob)

Hyrcanus (father of Eliezer, father of Dosa)

Chananiah

Netanel

Eleazar (Lazarus)(ben Arach, of Bartota, of Modiim, ben Azaryah, ben Chisma, ben Shammua, father of Shimon, ha-Kappar - 8 people)

Arach

Abba

Shaul

Tarfon

Akavya (ben Mahalalel)

Mahalalel

Chanina (an assistant of the high priest, ben Chachinai, ben Dosa - 3 people)

Chananiah (ben Teradion)

Teradion

Yochai

Chachinai

Nechunya (ben Hakanah)

Hakanah (? - this might be a nickname)

Chalafta (ben Dosa of Kefar Chanania)

Dosa (of Kefar Chanania, father of Chanina, ben Hyrcanus - 3 people)

Jacob (no attribute and father of Eliezer)

Dostai (ben Yannai)

Yannai

Meir

Yishmael (no attributes and son of Yosi)

Akiva

Azaryah

Chisma

Zoma

Azzai

Levitas (of Yavneh)

Baroka

Tzadok

Yonatan

Shammua

Ilai

Nehorai

Matya (ben Cheresh or Charash)

Cheresh/Charash

Samuel (the Younger)

Elisha (ben Avuyah)

Avuyah

Teima

(ben Bag-Bag, ben Heh-Heh = code names for sons of converts)

Levi

Menasya

Kisma

------------
Thus the most common name on the list is Shimon (Simon) - with 10 instances, followed by Eleazar (Lazarus)(8), Yosi (Joseph) and Judah (the same as Judas) 6 instances each, Yochanan (John) - 5, and Joshua, Chanina and Dosa with 3 instances each. Of course a longer text such as the entire Mishna or Josephus (another Joseph) would be better for statistics.

A comment regarding Hebrew names: Many Hebrew names mention God in some way. YHWH appears as the prefix Yo-, Yeho-, or Jo- or as the suffix -ya or -yahu. El-, Eli- can be a prefix or -el a suffix. Thus the meaning 'God has graced' can be expressed in the names Yochanan (John), Hanania (also spelled Chanania), Hananel and Elhanan. Since Jesus is a variant of Joshua, you can see it contains a prefix referring to God. The names Yeshayahu (Isaiah) and Elisha also have the same meaning.

Anat

mdarus, I don't recall anyone by the name of David from Mishnaic sources, so I don't think the name was in fashion at the time.

Chris Weimer

The LXX consistently translates both Yehoshua (Joshua) and Yeshua (the temple builder in Ezra) as Iesous. Jesus in the gospels could have been either one, but Yeshua was more common and thus more likely.