Huon

What were the duties of the pagan gods ?

The pagan gods were tribal gods. They had above all to bring the victory against the enemies, protect the tribe from military disasters, keep the king in good health, give him many children (especially boys) so as to maintain the dynasty. Another duty of the tribal gods was to bring good crops, large flocks, and stop the excesses of the climate (too cold, too hot, too wet, too dry, storms).

The Roman gods (Jupiter, Hercules, and Co) were tribal gods. During the reign of Marcus Aurelius (161-180), the Roman Empire suffered from various encroachments of Parthians, Sarmatians, Goths, Marcomans, etc… along the Danube. In Britain, the Antonine Wall was abandoned in 164, and the Romans troops withdrawed to Hadrian's Wall. In 169, the Marcomanni and Quadi crossed the Danube, penetrated the intervening provinces, entered Italy, and besieged Aquileia (not far from Venice). What did the Roman gods do to help the Empire ?

This situation lasted during 150 years, between ~150 and ~300. The Roman gods had large time to loose their credibility. The Roman gods could protect neither the Empire nor the subjects of the Empire. And many subjects of the Empire were not even Romans, so they were not very keen on those ineffective Roman tribal gods.

The only gods who could bring some relief were those who could be invoked in a personal relation. O God, please help me, please save me, please send me to the Paradise after my death !

aa5874

I don't think persecution means a mandatory death sentence.

And Justin implied that he was hated or "wantonly abused" just because he was a Christian.

andrewcriddle

Both our figures for the numbers of Christians and for the number of Jews are inaccurate but I would estimate that there were substantially more Christians than Jews in the Roman Empire a little before 300 CE.

I would say that it was only after Christianity had definitely outcompeted the Judaism of the day that it gained the sponsorship of the Roman Emperor.

Andrew Criddle

Cesc

Thanks for link. For sure I shall read Eusebius, but in due time. Look, all I'm saying is that - nevermind the nuances here - at some point the Christians were persecuted by the Roman empire. And at another point the empire embraced their religion as the state religion for the whole empire. Something happened in between.

At the time of the Nicaean Council there were bishops from practically all over the Roman world, some 318 or something? Clearly, those numbers indicate a staggering development from the beginnings of the first scattered Christian sects. Especially if they were continuously persecuted, as you say, but they still managed to grow in numbers despite that.

Nomatter what, the question remains: what was it about pre-Constantine Christianity that made it grow in numbers like that? And that was the original subject of my post.

I dunno if it was "widespread" or not. But didnt they hide in catacombs and such? Anyway, isnt it a fact that early Christians in general had to hide from the Roman authorities?

Toto

The Romans weren't too happy about any sort of group that could be used to challenge their authority. But it isn't a simple "fact" that Christians had to always hide from the Romans. It is generally agreed that persecution was light and ineffective for most of the first three centuries, except for some local incidents and the Diocletian persecution - which might have been just enough persecution to give Christians an internal coherence and make the church more organized.

But really - Rodney Stark has answered your questions, in detail. There's nothing mysterious about how Christianity grew.

Cesc

Yeah, I realise that. Now. No, I only wrote that the "question remains" to highlight the fact that the discussions about the persecutions were irrelevant to my original post. Anyway, its a mystery to me becuz I havn't read about it yet! ;-)

aa5874

Justin Martyr's Apologies contradict your statement that the persecution was light and ineffective for the most part of the first three centuries.

The mere fact that Justin wrote to the Emperor and the Senate indicates that the persecution was serious and did have some effect.

If a person is executed for just admitting to be a Christian, according to Justin, then persecution of Christians could not considered lightly.

Jeffrey Gibson

How can Justin, who was martyred the mid 160s CE, stand as evidence of what did or did not happen in the 3rd century?

Jeffrey

aa5874

I thought it was the "first three centuries" and not the "3rd century".

Justin Martyr lived sometime within the first three centuries and wrote about the persecution during the time he lived and the persecution during his time appears to be significant.

Jeffrey Gibson

[QUOTE=aa5874;5463270]
And just when do you think the 3rd century was?

Just some time?. Did he live in the 3rd of those 3?

But he cannot have known anything about the persecutions that occurred after 165.

Jeffrey



Jeffrey