Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ChandraRama · 03-27-2006, 04:00 PM

Is that a familiar concept in Judaism or was it invented in the Christianity?

And what is Holy sprit?

Sorry if this is a old answered question.

Biff the unclean · 03-27-2006, 04:27 PM

It comes from neither. It is part of the Dionysus cult from Hellenistic Greece.
Dionysus descended into Tartarus where he freed the spirit of his human virgin mother (who had been killed when Hera tricked her into asking Zeus to reveal his full splendor to her). He brought her ghost to mount Olympus where according to the Dionyseans they reigned as the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. The three persons in one family, the trinity.

David B · 03-27-2006, 04:30 PM

Further to Biff's post, 'Holy spirit' has absolutely nothing to suggest that it is a meaningful concept, let alone that it exists.

David B

Chris Weimer · 03-27-2006, 04:36 PM

It depends on what and when. For example, the Holy Spirit in Matthew was most likely merely the Spirit of God, working through men. It probably echoed the OT spirit of God, i.e. not actually God itself. However, in the intertestamental period, Metatron seemed to have been named the spirit of God, and in some ways became God himself. (Very weird theology that I'm not even sure of.) If this is so, then the idea probably resounded with early Christians.

Biff the unclean · 03-27-2006, 04:49 PM

Then you have to take Genesis into account. It says that the spirit of God was upon the waters, but that also translates as the breath of God.

Chris Weimer · 03-27-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

Then you have to take Genesis into account. It says that the spirit of God was upon the waters, but that also translates as the breath of God.

That's not the only place it mentions the spirit of God. Moreover, "spirit" רוה is used very often in the Bible to mean one's "spirit" and not breath, such as when god hardens their spirit.

fromdownunder · 03-27-2006, 06:06 PM

I presume the Holy Spirit is also the Holy ghost, or we have a four part god intead of a three part god. Acts 1 has a description of (if not an explanation for) the activities of this sprite.

Norm

Chris Weimer · 03-27-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fromdownunder

I presume the Holy Spirit is also the Holy ghost, or we have a four part god intead of a three part god. Acts 1 has a description of (if not an explanation for) the activities of this sprite.

Norm

Ghost is the older English word for modern "spirit".

ChandraRama · 03-27-2006, 07:16 PM

John says.." 8: I have baptized you with water; but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

So John knows about the concept of Holy sprit? Was this understanding common among the first century jews?

Also in Gospel of thomas.
44 Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven."

What does this mean? Does this make sense?

CaliNORML · 03-27-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChandraRama

Is that a familiar concept in Judaism or was it invented in the Christianity?

And what is Holy sprit?

Sorry if this is a old answered question.

Compassion.

KMS

03-27-2006, 04:00 PM	#1
ChandraRama Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: US Posts: 107	What is holy sprit? Is that a familiar concept in Judaism or was it invented in the Christianity? And what is Holy sprit? Sorry if this is a old answered question.

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03-27-2006, 04:27 PM	#2
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	It comes from neither. It is part of the Dionysus cult from Hellenistic Greece. Dionysus descended into Tartarus where he freed the spirit of his human virgin mother (who had been killed when Hera tricked her into asking Zeus to reveal his full splendor to her). He brought her ghost to mount Olympus where according to the Dionyseans they reigned as the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. The three persons in one family, the trinity.

03-27-2006, 04:30 PM	#3
David B Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wales Posts: 11,620	Further to Biff's post, 'Holy spirit' has absolutely nothing to suggest that it is a meaningful concept, let alone that it exists. David B

03-27-2006, 04:36 PM	#4
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	It depends on what and when. For example, the Holy Spirit in Matthew was most likely merely the Spirit of God, working through men. It probably echoed the OT spirit of God, i.e. not actually God itself. However, in the intertestamental period, Metatron seemed to have been named the spirit of God, and in some ways became God himself. (Very weird theology that I'm not even sure of.) If this is so, then the idea probably resounded with early Christians.

03-27-2006, 04:49 PM	#5
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Then you have to take Genesis into account. It says that the spirit of God was upon the waters, but that also translates as the breath of God.

03-27-2006, 06:06 PM	#7
fromdownunder Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Lara, Victoria, Australia Posts: 2,780	I presume the Holy Spirit is also the Holy ghost, or we have a four part god intead of a three part god. Acts 1 has a description of (if not an explanation for) the activities of this sprite. Norm

03-27-2006, 07:16 PM	#9
ChandraRama Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: US Posts: 107	John says.." 8: I have baptized you with water; but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." So John knows about the concept of Holy sprit? Was this understanding common among the first century jews? Also in Gospel of thomas. 44 Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven." What does this mean? Does this make sense?

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