stephan huller

Well, this discussion began with an accusation that I was a kook for thinking that someone, somewhere would interpret the Peniel experience as a castration. There are other scholars who think this. Here is the first thing I stumbled on from an age before modernity (Conrad Beisel 18th century):

Jacob's disjointed hip typifies celibacy or spiritual castration, to banish lust and male domination.

I will work my way back to something ancient in due course ...

stephan huller

"The solitariness of Jacob at Beth-El and at Peniel suggests the seclusion to which, in various primitive rites, the young initiates are subject. In view of the connection between limping and castration among various peoples ..." (Hebrew Union College annual, Volume 8)

http://books.google.com/books?id=NVE...ed=0CCsQ6AEwAA

stephan huller

Origen may be implying something in his description of the

Hence, also, the angel is said to have wrestled with Jacob. Here, however, I understand the writer to mean, that it was not the same thing for the angel to have wrestled with Jacob, and to have wrestled against him; but the angel that wrestles with him is he who was present with him in order to secure his safety, who, after knowing also his moral progress, gave him in addition the name of Israel, i.e., he is with him in the struggle, and assists him in the contest; seeing there was undoubtedly another angel against whom he contended, and against whom he had to carry on a contest. Finally, Paul has not said that we wrestle with princes, or with powers, but against principalities and powers. And hence, although Jacob wrestled, it was unquestionably against some one of those powers which, Paul declares, resist and contend with the human race, and especially with the saints. And therefore at last the Scripture says of him that he wrestled with the angel, and had power with God, so that the struggle is supported by help of the angel, but the prize of success conducts the conqueror to God [De Principiis 2.5]

Not a proof yet but a sign that castrated people took a great interest in Peniel

stephan huller

Okay, I think I found something. Wolfson Along the Path p. 51 notes that the kabbalists were always interested in Jacob's name having a numerical value equal to the names YHWH and Elohim x 2 (i.e. 26 + 65 = 91 x 2 = 182). One of the earliest exponents of this understanding is Eleazar of Worms (c. 1176 – 1238) in Sefer ha-Shem: "YHWH has the numerical value of 26 and it is called Adonai, which has the numerical value of 65. Thus the sum is 91. Hence, the two names equals Jacob." Wolfson correctly notes that Eleazar is really saying however that Jacob - the god-Man who sits at the top of the heavenly ladder' - is a hermaphrodite:

What Eleazar expressed in this rather simple numerology is that within Jacob the two names, which correspond to the two attributes and the cherubim, are united. This is an alternative way of saying that Jacob is the cherub that comprises the two cherubim or the one throne that is divided into a throne of mercy and a throne of judgment. Eleazar alludes to this matter in his Perush Sodot ha-Tefillah although without any connection to the motif of the image of Jacob ... In another passage Eleazar expresses the same idea but compares Jacob to the hashmal, the latter also symbolizing the appearance of the glory and the cherubim ... It may be concluded, therefore, that according to the esoteric teaching of Eleazar, the image of Jacob has a masculine and a feminine aspect. As we have seen, the androgynous quality of that image is expressed in terms of the two cherubim and the split throne. Nonetheless, in relation to the supernal glory, the image of Joseph is described in feminine characteristics, and the relationship between the image and the glory is like that of a female to a male."

The point is that this 12th century Jew is not alone in this esoteric understanding. Other examples can be cited. The question of course is how could a Patriarch who produced twelve sons be understood to be half-man, half-woman. The answer has to be Peniel.

I think Ephesians 2:15 - 16 especially in the Marcionite recension is rooted in the same idea. So too similar statements in the Gospel of the Hebrews and the Gospel of the Egyptians.

stephan huller

I think that Green's review of another of Wolfson's works points out something which could help one argue that the kabbalists sublimated an original castration interest in the andogynous god-Man Jacob:

The perfect human representation of the divine image is thus essentially an "androgynous male." http://www.du.edu/cjs/downloads/Speculum2-Wolfson.pdf

Again (my question now) how could Jacob - the father of twelve - be thought to embody 'the perfect male' hermaphrodite. His virility is unparalleled in the Torah. He keeps banging out children until something happens just before the birth of Benjamim. He was quite literally 'cut-off.'

spin

mountainman

There may be more than one imperfect human representation of the divine image
that have been brought to bear upon the original authorship of the new testament
and the role in its transmission via Polycamp to the ultimate Big Publication Event.



In speaking about his own father ....

Toto

Pete - it's Polycarp, not Polycamp. Is this some attempt at humor?

stephan huller

there is a typo in my last post "the image of Joseph is described in feminine characteristics' should read "the image of Jacob is described in feminine characteristics.' I think I had Origen's Prayer of Joseph (which deals with Jacob) on the brain ...

And spin I am not here to prove to anyone in particular that certain sects engaged in this type of interpretation. I think it's highly probable that the kabbalistic interest in a hermaphrodite Jacob/Israel has something to do with a castration at Peniel. I don't think that any literature specifically associated with Christian communities that practiced ritual castration have survived. As such it would be highly unlikely that a 'we cut off our testicles because we want to be like the Patriarch Jacob' confession has survived.

My interest is and has always been to explain the Marcionite and Alexandrian traditions (assuming they are in fact different). The Apostle makes reference to 'wishing' that certain people castrate themselves. There are other references. We don't know what the context of those original statements were in the Marcionite Apostolikon. They likely were used to the justify the Marcionite practice of ritual castration.

I feel confident that the early interest in showing martyrs being able to withstand flames at their martyrdom (Polycarp, Demetrius) goes back to the story of Daniel the eunuch prophet. John being boiled in hot oil might be included in this list.

The problem is finding that little piece of information that unlocks the hidden symbolism of an early belief or practice. We're not going to find an explicit reference to a Christian veneration of Jacob or James the eunuch. The solution to the riddle will undoubtedly come from some piece of symbolism ASSOCIATED with that belief - when properly restore to its original Jewish context - which will make manifest the original belief.

stephan huller

A mystery noted by Marqe the Samaritan:

Prepare to hear a QUESTION. Whence did he divulge them then? Set your mind to listen. The answer to your question is: Every blessing which God pronounced from Noah up to Jacob — see how it is. Consider the blessing of Noah and set your mind to learn. He said, 'And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply'" (Gen. ix. i). [Mimar Marqe 3.4]

I think Marqe is pointing to something which connects the two castrated Patriarchs (Noah and Jacob). Noah and Jacob ARE MADE fruitful (whatever that means). Abraham is told he 'WILL be fruitful' (וְהִפְרֵתִי Gen 17.6) presumably through his descendants. The blessing to Jacob (which he steals from Esau) is again that God WILL make Jacob fruitful (וְיַפְרְךָ Gen 28.3) until after Peniel and after his wife is pregnant for the last time it is declared that BE fruitful (פְּרֵה Gen 35.11).