Chris Weimer

This is true. There needs to be some evidence. Going with analogies, though, there has been evidence. Yet I've yet to see any of it critically examined, usually certain who merely dismiss it.

Correction: some doubt is rational. However, doubt alone does not make up historical studies. It's not about who doubts what, which sadly is the name of the game with Jesus studies. It's about interpreting the evidence in a theoretical framework. Was there a king of Ithaca who fought with the Achaeans in the Trojan War? Probably so. Did he visit the god of the winds and feast with the lotus eaters, survive the harpies and fought the cyclops? I don't think so.

I'm not sure how this is applicable. I've repeatedly on my own have fought against Doherty's theory without naming people who agree with me.

In fact, the only time I had to name names is when the opponent decided to attack me labelling me a Christian. It's really pathetic when you have to point out atheists who also believe in an HJ because they cannot fathom that an atheist would hold such a position contra their own.

I'm working on it. But I suggest you read through the journal "Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus" as a starting point.

best regards,

Chris Weimer

PS - Don't make me fire you Peter! I need you back at your "desk" for software creation ASAP!

Peter Kirby

Fascinating! Let's go over it sometime. In private, or in public, at your preference.

I doubt the bare minimum for the historicity of Odysseus, which is that there was a king of Ithaca who fought in a Trojan War with the Achaeans. The evidence is greater than absolute zero, but its nowhere near enough to make belief boil.

Suggesting a starting point for me for HJ studies? Hehehe.

By the way, I might be an HJ'er; I haven't really assessed it lately.

I will have some progress done by tax day. (This is my spring break.)

regards,
Peter Kirby

Chris Weimer

Soon enough. Actually, I was planning on contacting you first anyway, since I consider you a reliable neutral source for the purposes of critiquing my arguments, even if some may have called you an apologist before. Oh, and there is a thread at my forum, but I suppose you're too "busy" for us these days. :wave:

Why? There was an Ithaca? There was a Trojan War? It seems plausible, perhaps even probable, that they would have been involved in the war, unless the reports of the war were overexaggerated. In any case, there was a recent article floating around - I'll have to find it later - which placed Odysseus palace somewhere. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Hence the smilie-face. By the way, how is that Wikipedia article on HJ coming along? Have you done any more changes in private?

Eh, it's a tough call, to be honest. But the entire nomenclature is rather silly. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if someone is an "HJ'er" or "MJ'er". It's when we cross academic lines and become denigrating that infuriates me, even lowering me. I shan't do that anymore.

I've made some progress myself. I suppose we'll have to postpone a bit? In the meantime, check out my blog. I have some random musings there already, but I plan on some more detailed information shortly. It may prove beneficial to know where I'm coming from before we enter into a formal discussion, if that's what you have in mind.

very best,

Chris Weimer

Peter Kirby

Hey! I like your forum too. :P

Nothing recent. I have to return to it.

A formal discussion on the historicity of Jesus with Chris Wiemer? What could be better? Let's have it here at IIDB, why not? :devil3:

regards,
Peter Kirby

Peter Kirby

Were you teasing me, Chris? I think this could be fun and worthwhile.

regards,
Peter Kirby

fattychunks

i actually apologize for this topic, i went and did some reading myself and refuted the person who sent this to me... they apparently didnt understand what the jesus myth was either and all they did was copy and paste an argument to me. but i appreciate all of your responses. some of them i didnt even think of.
thx!

Chris Weimer

Not at all! Give me time, Peter! I have a substantial amount of days off coming up soon and I'll be able to formulate a stronger argument for myself. I'm also, actually, going to engage simultaneously with Christians at Spero forum on the same grounds in the same manner. A man has got to be prepared.

Peter Kirby

Bah! Just tell me which side I'm arguing for, and I'm good to go.

Actually it would be cool if we could have a more nebulous "discussion" than a debate of a resolution.

I'm glad to know that you do have an interest in this. Let me know when. I'm sure we will have a riveted audience also!

regards,
Peter Kirby

Chris Weimer

I would also welcome a discussion rather than a debate.