Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Charles Bailey · 05-07-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee_merrill

Well, that's what I was asking, given that it seems the sun going backwards was only reported to the Babylonians, and they were rather dedicated astronomers!

But your only source for that information is found in the Torah and not from ancient Babylonian records! Aren't you merely assuming the inerrancy of the biblical text here? Given the sheer volume of inconsistencies found between the books of Kings and Chronicles in describing the very same events, how would one justify assuming either of them to be inerrant, much less both of them?

lee_merrill · 05-07-2005, 04:53 PM

Hi everyone,

Quote:

John: Are you going to say that Jesus just "seemed to" perform miracles.

C'mon Lee. Stick by your guns. The sun stopped, period.

Well, the sun going back 10 steps seems to have been a local miracle, so I don't think it is necessary to insist on a given interpretation here.

Quote:

EVERY SINGLE WORD OF THE BIBLE IS LITERALLY TRUE. Right?

God says he has an arm, and yet fills heaven and earth, so there is work to be done, though yes, God's word is true.

Quote:

Lee: Well, making conclusions from silence in archaeology is rather inconclusive!

Charles: I find it hard to fathom that grown men in the 21st centruy--in an age of scientific enlightenment--could seriously be discussing whether or not the "sun stood still"…

Unless there is a real God, who perhaps, began the Big Bang?

Quote:

Charles: One of the alleged discoveries of that project was that there is a "layer of material" that "splits the moon into two halves" and it was asserted that the "only explanation" to this discovery was that the moon was split apart and "rejoined" at some point in its history.(Subhan Allah)

My question for you Lee, is how would you set out to disprove such an assertion?

I would check on whether the moon really does have two halves first! But as far as any given miraculous claim, yes, archaeology is to be considered, if there are pertinent records, we should bring in all the witnesses we can, the more, the merrier.

Quote:

Charles: Why would you for one moment think of citing synoptic passages from the Torah and then attempt to pass them off as some sort of external corroboration of an extraordinary event?

No actually, that's not what I meant by pointing out this passage, I meant that if the sun going back 10 steps was apparently a local event, the stopping of the sun in Joshua's day could have been local too.

I agree that I don't have corroboration of either event! Unless you count the mention of the Book of Jasher, it would be odd if they mentioned a secondary source that didn't exist, or that would provide no useful confirmation of this event.

Quote:

Aren't you merely assuming the inerrancy of the biblical text here?

Well yes, I am, I was taking this question as being "What is your explanation?" to see if there was a reasonable one, within a framework of holding that the Bible is true.

Regards,
Lee

Gullwind · 05-07-2005, 08:01 PM

How, exactly, could the sun stopping or going backwards have been a local event?

John A. Broussard · 05-07-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee_merrill

Well, the sun going back 10 steps seems to have been a local miracle,

Whoa! A local miracle?

Oh. You mean the sun didn't really stand still, it just looked that way to the locals.

Please let me know if I understand you correctly.

lee_merrill · 05-08-2005, 05:56 PM

Hi everyone,

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

You mean the sun didn't really stand still, it just looked that way to the locals.

Please let me know if I understand you correctly.

Yes, that is what I meant...

Regards,
Lee

Gullwind · 05-08-2005, 09:21 PM

Any chance you could describe how the sun appeared to hold still for a day or so in one area, but apparently moved (and set) normally everywhere else?

John A. Broussard · 05-09-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gullwind

Any chance you could describe how the sun appeared to hold still for a day or so in one area, but apparently moved (and set) normally everywhere else?

I can't answer for lee, but the standard theistic answer--after they've been driven to the wall--is substantially, "God moves in mysterious ways his wonders to perform." If an all powerful she/he/it wanted to make the sun stand still for Joshua and to move everywhere else, then it's a fait accompli.

lee_merrill · 05-10-2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

... the standard theistic answer--after they've been driven to the wall--is substantially, "God moves in mysterious ways his wonders to perform." If an all powerful she/he/it wanted to make the sun stand still for Joshua and to move everywhere else, then it's a fait accompli.

Well, miracles are ... miraculous! I don't think that should be very surprising...

Regards,
Lee

John A. Broussard · 05-10-2005, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee_merrill

Well, miracles are ... miraculous!

That is by far the best explanation I've ever encountered for miracles.

Thanks.

lee_merrill · 05-11-2005, 06:06 PM

We aims to please.

Regards,
Lee

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-07-2005, 08:01 PM	#63
Gullwind Veteran Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,037	How, exactly, could the sun stopping or going backwards have been a local event?

05-08-2005, 09:21 PM	#66
Gullwind Veteran Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,037	Any chance you could describe how the sun appeared to hold still for a day or so in one area, but apparently moved (and set) normally everywhere else?

05-11-2005, 06:06 PM	#70
lee_merrill Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,074	We aims to please. Regards, Lee

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.