Freethought & Rationalism Archive

BSM · 01-23-2005, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Our beliefs are very different from those of the sects that call themselves "Christian", and our paradigms are so different as to make communication difficult with many misunderstandings, this is why you are having difficulty in understanding my writings and my reasonings, because you are trying to fit them into that "Christian" frame of reference with which you are so familiar.

Do you have a church? An established body of worshippers? If yes to both does your religion have a hierarchy? A leader? Doctrinal statements?

Quote:

As stated in my 'public profile', I am "Mono Yahwistic", that is to say, that to the best of my knowledge, and to the best of my ability I walk in the faith of father Abraham, believing in One Creator and Sustainer of ALL things visible and invisible, known and unknown, whose Name is sometimes known as Yah, Yahweh, and Yah'hu. (and accepting of all variations of pronunciation that are held in clear conscience)

If you walk in the faith of father Abraham then you are Jew. Abraham is considered to be the father of Judaism and one of the three Patriarchs of Judaism.

Quote:

As for all of the other things of my beliefs, they are alien and incomprehensible to anyone not believing in the Name of YAH Yahweh from the heart, but whosoever does so believe, undergoes a paradigm shift and looks upon all things, and all human endeavor, and all of history from a new perspective.

No doubt...

Quote:

We believe that Yah is present, and actively leads His own day by day, teaching each of us in His own way, time, and according to His own will, therefore we have no such thing as a "closed canon", because truth cannot be confined, and we live under a commandment to receive whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, and whatsoever things are pure.

Curious, if you are to recieve that which is true, what standard do you use to judge truth? Divine revelation?

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yet that Word I witness is not confined to books,

Perhaps. Irregardless, there were religions and holy texts before Abraham. Are you telling me all holy texts are part of Yaweh's divine plan?

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I have ten thousands of reasons, which are as absolute, and as enduring as the sun in the sky, and as the earth beneath my feet, to sustain my faith. So, I will praise Yahweh while I live, with a full confidence that He will bring to pass all of His promises. What I say, I say to all, halellu-HU

Outside of math and a few sundry historical facts, very few things are absolute. Whatever the case, I'm glad that you have confidence in Yahweh. However, I do not.

Regards,

~BSM

Sheshbazzar · 01-23-2005, 03:08 PM

I will endeavor to answer your questions as briefly, as honestly, and as forthrightly as I am able.

[QUOTE=BSM]Do you have a church? An established body of worshippers? If yes to both does your religion have a hierarchy? A leader? Doctrinal statements?
.................................................. .................................................. ....
In general the word 'church' is not the word we use among ourselves,
preferring to leave that term also to Christian organizations for a variety of reasons.
But yes, we account every individual on earth who honors the Name of YAH Yahweh, and who sings His praise with honest hope in His promises, to be a member of His congregation, He is the only one knowing us all.
Yes we have an established body of worshipers, Most of whom meet together upon His Sabbath Days, to give Him honor.

Individual congregations "rule their own house" and organize themselves and elect their own leaders as they will, and yes some do set up hierarchy's, but their authority only extends as far as individual believers are willing to submit to their judgment, if any requirement violates conscience, the one who is opposed is free to move on to another assembly, or to build up a congregation that shares his views.

Yes, We do have a Leader, and under Him shepherd's over His flocks, and they are the leaders of His people.
Yes, Many have taken it upon themselves to issue "Doctrinal Statements" but these are binding upon no one that does not willingly choose to accept them
.................................................. .................................................. ....
If you walk in the faith of father Abraham then you are Jew. Abraham is considered to be the father of Judaism and one of the three Patriarchs of Judaism.
.................................................. .................................................. ....
In this I must respectfully disagree, father Abraham was not a "Jew" and while the latter religion of "Judaism" had its roots in the Patriarchal stories, its elaborate rituals and arcane doctrines were unknown to him.
.................................................. .................................................. ....

Curious, if you are to receive that which is true, what standard do you use to judge truth? Divine revelation?
.................................................. .................................................. ....
Whatever 'standard' Yah brings to our consciences, A question asked long ago, "What is the Truth?" And yes, We absolutely believe in "Divine revelation", and that it is still a present and ongoing fact within the body of His assembly, Only He has the ability to give gifts of true insight and understanding to His chosen vessels, no man can receive these of his own violation, It is His gift.
.................................................. .................................................. ....

Perhaps. Irregardless, there were religions and holy texts before Abraham. Are you telling me all holy texts are part of Yaweh's divine plan?
.................................................. .................................................. ....
ALL that ever was, and ALL that is, and ALL that ever will be, IS part of His divine plan, nothing is excluded.
.................................................. .................................................. ....

Outside of math and a few sundry historical facts, very few things are absolute. Whatever the case, I'm glad that you have confidence in Yahweh. However, I do not.

Regards,
.................................................. .................................................. ....
Yes, math, an interesting subject is it not? Absolutely amazing what a simple line and plummet can prove, ah, but there have to be standards,
Question is do we share the same standards?
-Zerubabble-

Sheshbazzar · 01-23-2005, 06:52 PM

Sadly these words were plucked from the context of the discussion in which they originally appeared, but then we wouldn't want light to get pass the blinders of our Biblical ignorance, would we?

~~~~
Comments about moderator actions do not belong in-thread. Start a thread in P&C or PM a moderator if there are questions about why a particular decision was made.

Cynthia of Syracuse
~~~~

BSM · 01-24-2005, 11:19 AM

Actually, seeing all the posts that are relevant to Baazar's religious beliefs have cleared up much for me.

In fact, it's almost like a secular revelation of sorts...

Final note on Abraham. You are correct. Technically, it is incorrect to refer to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as Jews, because the terms "Jew" and "Judaism" were not used to refer to their religion (or people) until many years after their time; nevertheless, most scholars do.

Quote:

Question is do we share the same standards?

Doubtful.

Regards,

~BSM

Avatar · 01-24-2005, 02:24 PM

Somehow this reminds me of the Belgariad series by David Eddings.

In the story, there are a number of Holy Books. A lot of the stuff in the books is gibberish, but in the late part of the story the hero is told that the contents of the many Holy Books added up to what was essentially a "letter" written to him alone (a "Chosen One" in the classic mold). The character read the books and discovered that if he let his attention drift over the writings, certain passages would "jump" out at him. When added together and taken as a whole, the pieces the hero garnered from the various Holy books added up into a long message about what he was supposed to do and how to do it.

Somehow, that sounds much like what Sheshbazaar claims is what is going on. The main character of the story had stepped outside the frames of the doctrines of the common religions of the world and discovered the "TRUTH BEHIND IT ALL."

Of course since it is a fantasy tale, it's okay. Sadly such things don't work that way in real life. It might be neat if it did, but that would imply some kind of ordered plan to the universe. I don't know what planet most thiests live on, but my experience has taught me that things happen just because things happen. To attempt to read some kind of "sacred synchronicity" or intent into them is foolish and pointless.

Sheshbazzar · 01-24-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSM

Outside of math and a few sundry historical facts, very few things are absolute.
.................................................. .................................................. ....
Yes, math, an interesting subject is it not? Absolutely amazing what a simple line and plummet can prove, ah, but there have to be standards,
Question is do we share the same standards?
-Zerubabble-

You chose to reply "Doubtful" to the question "Do we share the same standards?"
As the question was asked in relation to a paragraph specifically relating to the subject of "math", would you be interested in indulging this 'fool in his folly' with respect to an comparison of our mathematical and geometrical standards? I would be most interested in determining how absolute you believe absolute to be.

-Zerubabble-

BSM · 01-25-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

would you be interested in indulging this 'fool in his folly' with respect to an comparison of our mathematical and geometrical standards?

Bazzar,

Sadly, no. I'm quite busy on this end and am trying to cut down on the folly so I can be productive. However, you might try the upper fora. Perhaps someone will engage you in a debate on absolutes.

Regards,

~BSM

Sheshbazzar · 01-25-2005, 11:30 PM

I had no intention of presenting nor in engaging in any form of "debate" about the absolutes of basic math and geometry,
after all if these simple matters are considered "absolutes" by both of us, and by all of mankind in general, then there should be nothing to debate.

"And a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment,
Because to every purpose there is time and judgment,"

It's about time.

-Zerubabble-

Jobar · 01-26-2005, 09:59 AM

[Arte Johnson]Verrrry innnteresting.[/Arte Johnson]

Quote:

I have ten thousands of reasons, which are as absolute, and as enduring as the sun in the sky, and as the earth beneath my feet, to sustain my faith.

Um, Sheesh, though the sun and the earth are indeed both extremely enduring on a human scale, neither of them are absolutes. The sun will burn up its hydrogen in something like five billion years, and before that happens it'll go through a red giant phase, expand, and engulf the earth, or at least burn it to bare rock and metal.

I too am curious to know if your 'Yahwehism' is preached in any organized fashion. You obviously feel it as a deep mystical revelation; do others? Do you talk about it anywhere except on the Internet?

Sheshbazzar · 01-26-2005, 03:03 PM

Yes, Jobar,
The "Yahwehism" which I proclaim is preached in organized fashion by the ministers of Yah's people, and every individual wherever, that "calls upon the name Yahweh" (Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Rom. 10:13) in sincerity IS accounted as one of His people.

And holding the same hope, we are 'one' in and through His Holy Name. (Jn. 17:11)

My personal conversion and conviction came about some 37 years ago, hearing and believing, I was immersed into the Name of Yahshua the Messiah at the Feast of Tabernacles in Eaton Rapids Michigan by the hands of Pastor Samuel Graham, and his brother John, who was my G.M. co-worker and friend.
And as taught by the exemplary example of Pastor Samuel, and all of the elders in The Assembly of Yahweh, I live a quiet and peaceable life, loving and being loved, I am respected by my family, by my friends, and by my community.

If you care to use I.E. search, you will find many groups that preach the Name Yahweh, throughout the U.S. and in many foreign countries, and who hold regularly scheduled organized services for prayer, praise, teaching, and the mutual support of each other and of our fellow man.
It has been customary for many years now for many of the Assemblies in the U.S. to hold or to attend our "Unity Conferences", which are open to all, to resolve those conflicts and differences of doctrines and interpretations that admittedly still exist amongst us.

There are various 'callings' within the body, and not all are given the same gifts, if we live in humility, we confess we are each molded into what He would have us to be for His service, and for the service of all mankind.

Do you believe that "in something like five billion years...." the laws of mathematics and geometry will change or will cease to exist?

I am not asking this flippantly, but in all seriousness, please reply in kind.
-Zerubabble-

01-23-2005, 06:52 PM	#23
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Biblical ignorance Sadly these words were plucked from the context of the discussion in which they originally appeared, but then we wouldn't want light to get pass the blinders of our Biblical ignorance, would we? ~~~~ Comments about moderator actions do not belong in-thread. Start a thread in P&C or PM a moderator if there are questions about why a particular decision was made. Cynthia of Syracuse ~~~~

01-25-2005, 11:30 PM	#28
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Standards I had no intention of presenting nor in engaging in any form of "debate" about the absolutes of basic math and geometry, after all if these simple matters are considered "absolutes" by both of us, and by all of mankind in general, then there should be nothing to debate. "And a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment, Because to every purpose there is time and judgment," It's about time. -Zerubabble-

01-26-2005, 03:03 PM	#30
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Standards Yes, Jobar, The "Yahwehism" which I proclaim is preached in organized fashion by the ministers of Yah's people, and every individual wherever, that "calls upon the name Yahweh" (Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Rom. 10:13) in sincerity IS accounted as one of His people. And holding the same hope, we are 'one' in and through His Holy Name. (Jn. 17:11) My personal conversion and conviction came about some 37 years ago, hearing and believing, I was immersed into the Name of Yahshua the Messiah at the Feast of Tabernacles in Eaton Rapids Michigan by the hands of Pastor Samuel Graham, and his brother John, who was my G.M. co-worker and friend. And as taught by the exemplary example of Pastor Samuel, and all of the elders in The Assembly of Yahweh, I live a quiet and peaceable life, loving and being loved, I am respected by my family, by my friends, and by my community. If you care to use I.E. search, you will find many groups that preach the Name Yahweh, throughout the U.S. and in many foreign countries, and who hold regularly scheduled organized services for prayer, praise, teaching, and the mutual support of each other and of our fellow man. It has been customary for many years now for many of the Assemblies in the U.S. to hold or to attend our "Unity Conferences", which are open to all, to resolve those conflicts and differences of doctrines and interpretations that admittedly still exist amongst us. There are various 'callings' within the body, and not all are given the same gifts, if we live in humility, we confess we are each molded into what He would have us to be for His service, and for the service of all mankind. Do you believe that "in something like five billion years...." the laws of mathematics and geometry will change or will cease to exist? I am not asking this flippantly, but in all seriousness, please reply in kind. -Zerubabble-

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01-23-2005, 03:08 PM	#22
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	I will endeavor to answer your questions as briefly, as honestly, and as forthrightly as I am able. [QUOTE=BSM]Do you have a church? An established body of worshippers? If yes to both does your religion have a hierarchy? A leader? Doctrinal statements? .................................................. .................................................. .... In general the word 'church' is not the word we use among ourselves, preferring to leave that term also to Christian organizations for a variety of reasons. But yes, we account every individual on earth who honors the Name of YAH Yahweh, and who sings His praise with honest hope in His promises, to be a member of His congregation, He is the only one knowing us all. Yes we have an established body of worshipers, Most of whom meet together upon His Sabbath Days, to give Him honor. Individual congregations "rule their own house" and organize themselves and elect their own leaders as they will, and yes some do set up hierarchy's, but their authority only extends as far as individual believers are willing to submit to their judgment, if any requirement violates conscience, the one who is opposed is free to move on to another assembly, or to build up a congregation that shares his views. Yes, We do have a Leader, and under Him shepherd's over His flocks, and they are the leaders of His people. Yes, Many have taken it upon themselves to issue "Doctrinal Statements" but these are binding upon no one that does not willingly choose to accept them .................................................. .................................................. .... If you walk in the faith of father Abraham then you are Jew. Abraham is considered to be the father of Judaism and one of the three Patriarchs of Judaism. .................................................. .................................................. .... In this I must respectfully disagree, father Abraham was not a "Jew" and while the latter religion of "Judaism" had its roots in the Patriarchal stories, its elaborate rituals and arcane doctrines were unknown to him. .................................................. .................................................. .... Curious, if you are to receive that which is true, what standard do you use to judge truth? Divine revelation? .................................................. .................................................. .... Whatever 'standard' Yah brings to our consciences, A question asked long ago, "What is the Truth?" And yes, We absolutely believe in "Divine revelation", and that it is still a present and ongoing fact within the body of His assembly, Only He has the ability to give gifts of true insight and understanding to His chosen vessels, no man can receive these of his own violation, It is His gift. .................................................. .................................................. .... Perhaps. Irregardless, there were religions and holy texts before Abraham. Are you telling me all holy texts are part of Yaweh's divine plan? .................................................. .................................................. .... ALL that ever was, and ALL that is, and ALL that ever will be, IS part of His divine plan, nothing is excluded. .................................................. .................................................. .... Outside of math and a few sundry historical facts, very few things are absolute. Whatever the case, I'm glad that you have confidence in Yahweh. However, I do not. Regards, .................................................. .................................................. .... Yes, math, an interesting subject is it not? Absolutely amazing what a simple line and plummet can prove, ah, but there have to be standards, Question is do we share the same standards? -Zerubabble-

01-24-2005, 02:24 PM	#25
Avatar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 2,817	Somehow this reminds me of the Belgariad series by David Eddings. In the story, there are a number of Holy Books. A lot of the stuff in the books is gibberish, but in the late part of the story the hero is told that the contents of the many Holy Books added up to what was essentially a "letter" written to him alone (a "Chosen One" in the classic mold). The character read the books and discovered that if he let his attention drift over the writings, certain passages would "jump" out at him. When added together and taken as a whole, the pieces the hero garnered from the various Holy books added up into a long message about what he was supposed to do and how to do it. Somehow, that sounds much like what Sheshbazaar claims is what is going on. The main character of the story had stepped outside the frames of the doctrines of the common religions of the world and discovered the "TRUTH BEHIND IT ALL." Of course since it is a fantasy tale, it's okay. Sadly such things don't work that way in real life. It might be neat if it did, but that would imply some kind of ordered plan to the universe. I don't know what planet most thiests live on, but my experience has taught me that things happen just because things happen. To attempt to read some kind of "sacred synchronicity" or intent into them is foolish and pointless.

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